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Subject: Death star destroys empty space - new card? rss

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Jason Pisani
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If the Death Star destroys an empty space does the Empire get an extra card?

Example: The Rebel player has moved all of the ships out of the reserve board. All Rebel ships are now on the main circle. The Empire player plays a DS card to blow up stuff. This is the first time the player has decided to do this. The only option is an empty space. The card has artwork on it of a ship. The roll is successful. The space is turned over. No playable ships are destroyed. The reward for clearing a space is an extra card. Does the Empire gain this extra card.

I've read two faqs that seem to say different things.
 
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Trevor Taylor
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iamthepisani wrote:
If the Death Star destroys an empty space does the Empire get an extra card?

Example: The Rebel player has moved all of the ships out of the reserve board. All Rebel ships are now on the main circle. The Empire player plays a DS card to blow up stuff. This is the first time the player has decided to do this. The only option is an empty space. The card has artwork on it of a ship. The roll is successful. The space is turned over. No playable ships are destroyed. The reward for clearing a space is an extra card. Does the Empire gain this extra card.

I've read two faqs that seem to say different things.


I've not seen a consistent response on whether the empire gets cards or not for destroying a supply tile. I think the issue is that there is 2 threads with people asking different people, involved in the game, questions. Since it's a mass produced game, I doubt we'll ever see a proper FAQ/updated rules.

All that aside. I would say destroying an empty supply tile gets you nothing. As the justification for gaining a card is that destroying a tile with ships on is 'clearing a sector of ships' (which IS in the rules as getting you a card). Clearing an empty tile should reward nothing in my book (which is obviously not official either!).
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I swing the other way, and feel empty capital ships that get destroyed should grant a new card.

My reasoning is simple. From a gameplay perspective, I consider the Empire side to be at a slight disadvantage, so they need the extra help. From a thematic perspective, destroying the Rebel capital ships is still a huge morale boost for the Imperials. Since one FAQ clearly states that TIE fighters can attack/destroy capital ships, I also tend to view those "empty spaces" as units that just aren't effective in battle.

That said, I wouldn't strongly object either way as long as you are consistent.
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Trevor Taylor
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oneiric wrote:
I swing the other way, and feel empty capital ships that get destroyed should grant a new card.

My reasoning is simple. From a gameplay perspective, I consider the Empire side to be at a slight disadvantage, so they need the extra help. From a thematic perspective, destroying the Rebel capital ships is still a huge moral boost for the Imperials. Since one FAQ clearly states that TIE fighters can attack/destroy capital ships, I also tend to view those "empty spaces" as units that just aren't effective in battle.

That said, I wouldn't strongly object either way as long as you are consistent.


Balance wise, the markers exist to provide a timer so that the Death Star can't immediately target the fighters nearest to the Death Star. Since the markers don't actually attack at all and are only dangerous to the empire while they still have ships on, thematically why would the Empire gain on boost when all you did was destroy some now useless ships? If anything, it would inspire the rebels to fight harder as you just destroy what are essentially supply/support ships which were of no danger to the empire (unjust attack).
 
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First, any thematic implications are just us tacking on silly rationalizations for in-game balance choices. The fact that Rebels win more often than not is the only justification needed for awarding the extra card when a capital ship is destroyed. (Also note that you are destroying a ship in that sector, as there clearly is a ship printed on the tile before the space gets removed.)

That said...

I fail to see why blowing up a huge enemy ship wouldn't be considered a good thing for the Empire. It's a show of strength to remove supporting forces from the battle using the immense power of the Death Star, and a warning to surviving Rebels that more destruction is on the way. Thematically, if that doesn't embolden the Imperial forces enough to grant another action then I don't know what would.

As for inspiring the Rebel forces, you just saw a capital ship - a major resource for your side, which may have contained many of your personal friends - destroyed in a single shot while the Empire moves one step closer to using you as the next target for their ultimate weapon. Motivating? Maybe, if only because your back is increasingly pressed against a wall. Stressful and emotionally wrenching? Without doubt.
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Trevor Taylor
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I don't know where you get your stats for balance but our games are 50/50 (as have been my 2 friends who also own it).

PS. As I said before, they aren't providing any support once the fighters leave the tile as they aren't contributing anything to the final battle.
 
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Then feel free to do as you please.

My suggestion that balance tips in favor of the Empire is based on personal experience and reading comments in the forums here. There are no official stats to prove either view.

If you feel the game is already perfectly balanced without awarding those cards, then it makes sense not to do so; my impression is that most people don't feel that way.
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Jason Pisani
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I only played the game twice. I missed that rule the first time and got good roles. I dominated as the Rebels. The second game we played with the rule that when an empty space was destroyed the Empire got a card. This (I felt) was a huge advantage for the Empire. The next time I play I will say empty spaces will not count for the extra card. The Rebels feel pressure to get off those spaces soon giving the Empire time to beat up on Luke and prep Endor.
 
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Anders Pedersen
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I have always played that you do get a card.
I base this on the below thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1447610/some-rules-clarific...
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Minot
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The fleet markers appear to be considered "units/ships" as far as the rules are concerned (as according to the above post), so the Empire would get a bonus order for destroying one.
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Aaron Tubb
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dbc- wrote:
I have always played that you do get a card.
I base this on the below thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1447610/some-rules-clarific...

Yes, if you go by this FAQ thread, the answer is pretty clearly 'yes'.

Quote:
1. Does the Empire receive a bonus card when it destroys a rebel fleet marker or clears a sector with the Death Star card?

Yes, the Empire receives a bonus card for destroying a rebel fleet marker or clearing a sector (after all of the fleet markers are destroyed).


The question does not mention whether or not any Rebel ships must be on the fleet marker when it is destroyed, implying that it simply does not matter if there are any ships on it or not.
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Trevor Taylor
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Aarontu wrote:
dbc- wrote:
I have always played that you do get a card.
I base this on the below thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1447610/some-rules-clarific...

Yes, if you go by this FAQ thread, the answer is pretty clearly 'yes'.

Quote:
1. Does the Empire receive a bonus card when it destroys a rebel fleet marker or clears a sector with the Death Star card?

Yes, the Empire receives a bonus card for destroying a rebel fleet marker or clearing a sector (after all of the fleet markers are destroyed).


The question does not mention whether or not any Rebel ships must be on the fleet marker when it is destroyed, implying that it simply does not matter if there are any ships on it or not.


It does not, hence the OPs question as the FAQ is NOT clear (hence you needing to imply this rule). The FAQ is one generate by the brother of the designer (well one of the 3 designers). So it appears we need to wait for him to have dinner with his brother again for the FAQ to be added to.

NimitsTexan wrote:
The fleet markers appear to be considered "units/ships" as far as the rules are concerned (as according to the above post), so the Empire would get a bonus order for destroying one.


No they don't. They refer to them as rebel fleet markers. Nothing says they are 'considered' as ships.

 
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Anders Pedersen
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Do what the rules say, not what you think they should say.
According to the ruling from the designer you get a card for clearing a sector or destroying a fleet marker. No exceptions are mentioned, so don't add any yourself. It is quite simple really.
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Brian S.
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Not getting the ambiguity here. A Fleet Marker is a Fleet Marker whether it has ships on it or not. Per item #1 in the FAQ, destroying a Fleet Marker awards a bonus card.
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Jason Pisani
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Vrooman wrote:
Not getting the ambiguity here. A Fleet Marker is a Fleet Marker whether it has ships on it or not. Per item #1 in the FAQ, destroying a Fleet Marker awards a bonus card.

An Anarchist and US Constitution badge. There is an ambiguity
To me, the rule seemed to be about destroying ships. After only one play I thought that destroying empty spaces was not fair. It seems to me that there should be some tension between getting your fleet off those spaces and onto the board to avoid the DS while the Empire can kill Luke or defend Endor. So, I guess there isn't ambiguity. It just didn't seem clear to me.
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Scott Lewis
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negatrev wrote:
Since the markers don't actually attack at all and are only dangerous to the empire while they still have ships on, thematically why would the Empire gain on boost when all you did was destroy some now useless ships?

Thematically, the fleet ships were just as involved in the battle as the fighters were. Their role is not as visible in this game, but they didn't just sit there in the actual battle.

iamthepisani wrote:
It seems to me that there should be some tension between getting your fleet off those spaces and onto the board to avoid the DS while the Empire can kill Luke or defend Endor.

There still is tension, because you still want to get your ships off the fleet markers so they don't get blown up!
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Dan C
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You should get the bonus either way. An empty ship is still a ship. The empire needs it for balance and for making the Death Star not worthless after the ships are emptied.
 
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Minot
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The FAQ is clear; you get cards for blowing up fleet markers. Markers are not just "empty spaces."

Thematically, they are large ships involved in the battle.
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Simon Barnes
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So just to be clear the fleet markers are ships, the rulebook refers to them as such, even when they have no fighters on them (pg 2). Correct? Also the following pages from the rulebook seem to make it clear the fleet markers are ships:
page 8 of rulebook wrote:
There are three types of ships in this battle...Fighters..Rebel fleet markers... special ships. Rebel fleet markers are from the parts sheet each including multiple rebel ships

page 11 of rulebook wrote:
Different ships require different numbers to take a hit, as shown below:

Rebel Ships

Milenium Falcon 5 or higher
Rebel fleet marker 5 or higher
B-Wings 5 or higher
etc


And you have to target fleet markers BEFORE you can clear sectors of all ships (pg 10). Correct?
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Jason Pisani
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Everything you said sounds right to me. The fleet markers have to be destroyed before spaces on the main game board. If one fleet marker is destroyed (even if it is empty) the Empire gets a new card.
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Simon Barnes
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Thanks Jason, I was initially thrown by your reference to "empty space" which I now realise you meant an empty fleet marker. Also someone insisting fleet markers weren't ships even though the rules say they are. Of course there wouldn't be a problem if Hasbro's rules were a bit clearer.
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