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Subject: Only 6 quests? rss

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Pink Rose
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I haven't purchased the game yet so I'm just doing research.
As a comparison, Gloomhaven has 90+ quests. Am I reading things right that this only includes 6 quests?
 
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MM
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OregonPinkRose wrote:
I haven't purchased the game yet so I'm just doing research.
As a comparison, Gloomhaven has 90+ quests. Am I reading things right that this only includes 6 quests?


There are 7 total quests in the Act1 campaign.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
You only experience 6 due to decisions made during the campaign.
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Skaak
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There are 7 quests included in the core set, but you only play 6 of them on any given playthrough. So if your most important metric is "number of quests" Gloomhaven is the clear winner.

That said, Gloomhaven is a legacy game. Once you've played it, you're done. I also have no idea how varied and interesting its quests are (never played it). Sword & Sorcery is a modular board game which you can replay as much as you'd like, and the quests are reasonably varied (different enemies, different twists, etc.). Realistically, most people who like the game a lot will probably play through at least 2 core set campaigns (thanks to the different soul natures of heroes, you get a much different experience with different party makeups).

Gremlin Project will be releasing a quest editor allowing for third party quests for S&S, as well. Whether this will result in more options has yet to be seen, but it's worth noting that the quests in the core set are potentially just a starting point.

Honestly, just comparing the number of quests is a bit pointless. Gloomhaven and S&S have very different gameplay, one's a legacy game and the other will support third-party content, etc. I'd recommend you look into the gameplay to see which will fit you and your playgroup better, and base your purchasing decision on that.
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Vasilis
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Number of quests is a REALLY bad way to measure game quality...

A "quest" could be 3 interconnected rooms with a "kill everything that moves" objective attached OR it could be a sprawling dungeon affair with story events, multiple monster groups and a solid mission objective.

Gloomhaven has 90 quests but as far as I know they are pretty basic while SnS has only just a bunch but they come with a whole BOOK of story-related events to read...

Having said that, I don't mean that Gloomhaven is a bad game. Its appeal lies elsewhere, definitely not in the complexity of its quests.
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Carlos Alves
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I think you're all forgetting about act 2 which hams additional quests to play.
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Skaak
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BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
I think you're all forgetting about act 2 which hams additional quests to play.


The OP hasn't purchased the game, which means they would likely be buying the retail version. Act II doesn't really factor into the quest count in that case, since it will be an additional purchase and we don't know exactly when it will come out.

But the point that there will be guaranteed additional first party quests available is certainly valid.
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David Matzer
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I totally agree that you cannot compare S&S to GH based on the number of scenarios. GH is an outlier when it comes to quantity. I preordered S&S retail and am looking forward to playing this game. Sure who does not want more quests but I will probably play the campaign at least 4 times so I can play different classes and light vs dark. I am sure if the game is good to me I will get my money's worth in play time.
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Matt Drake
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I think you can get your money's worth out of S&S with only six quests, but I am very much looking forward to the quest editor and the wealth of third-party content that I expect will appear. That's not really an option in Gloomhaven (though I am very much looking forward to Gloomhaven).

I intend to create at least one campaign. Even if I know what's going to happen, my wife won't, and so it will be fun to see stories unfold. I plan to build in decision trees, alternate quests and variable endings, so even if I know what all the endings are, I won't know which one we get until we get there.

Seriously, can't wait.
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J P
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People keep saying that a quest editor "isn't really an option for Gloomhaven," yet Isaac released everything to create your own scenarios back in January. I don't know how many people have made stuff, but it is an option. Even Jamey Steigmeier (sp?) made one.
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Pink Rose
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Thanks all.
I definitely wasn't using the quest count as the only metric.
I just wanted to make sure I was reading things right.
There has been no discussion about Act II release apart from the KS stuff, right?
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Jeff Fike
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Gloomhaven's 90+ quests have a lot of similarity amongst them. There are a few notable exceptions, but it is definitely a grind. The different mixes of monsters is what makes them all interesting.

The 6 quests in S&S do feel short. In terms of playtime, it is just a fraction of gloomhaven's play time.

But, in honesty, I really love both of them and I wish someone would merge them.

Get rid of the dice but also get rid of the cards. Just have the skill system S&S has, but each skill has euro damage capabilities like GH. A battle deck concept or just one single die would make S&S so much simpler and the skill concept from S&S would make GH much more streamlined. (The top and bottom card pairing thing is cute, and I love the "no dice" but very distracting at the same time, and a skill that takes a number of turns to refresh would be more effective)

Also, GH's AI is superior. Both the initiative and the unpredictability of it.

I say all of these things with huge love for both...so even if it sounds pessimistic, it really isn't. I just realized that a hybrid would be my idea of a perfect dungeon romp.
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Allan
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OregonPinkRose wrote:
Thanks all.
I definitely wasn't using the quest count as the only metric.
I just wanted to make sure I was reading things right.
There has been no discussion about Act II release apart from the KS stuff, right?


From the latest update (which was a couple of days ago)

Quote:
When will you get Wave 2 items?

We now have all Wave 2 files ready to go to print. Normally, printing requires 8 weeks, then shipping to warehouses requires about 6 weeks. All considered, we plan to ship Wave 2 to backers in October.

On a related subject - We plan to have the downloadable Quest booklets for Arcane Portal ready before you get the physical components you need to play them.


So it's still a number of months away from getting into backers hands, I imagine a retail release won't be too long after that.
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Daniel Davis
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Huge disappointment that this ships with only 6-7 quests, and no random dungeon crawl mode.

Sounds like they put all their time and effort into the plastic.
 
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Skaak
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D_Davis wrote:
Huge disappointment that this ships with only 6-7 quests, and no random dungeon crawl mode.

Sounds like they put all their time and effort into the plastic.


Sounds like you haven't played Sword & Sorcery at all.

Seriously, though, you don't need to play more than one quest to figure out that a ton of time and effort went into crafting all aspects of Sword & Sorcery. There's "only" 7 quests because they spent a ton of time crafting them, and the designer has publicly stated that the reason there's no random dungeon element is not because they are not interested but because they are unable to implement something that lives up to their expectations of quality and fun.
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Scott Cantor
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D_Davis wrote:
Huge disappointment that this ships with only 6-7 quests, and no random dungeon crawl mode.

Sounds like they put all their time and effort into the plastic.


Descent ships/shipped with roughly exactly as much of an initial campaign, FWIW. I didn't expect any more here, but in fact at least as a backer I get wave 2 with another batch of content at least as large, and I added the side campaign. But it also cost quite a bit more too.

I don't expect to see a random mode. Some people disagree but I don't think it fits the game play/design for reasons I can't articulate well. It feels "honed" in terms of balance and monster difficulty in a way that I think randomness would throw off.

The time here did not go into plastic. It went into the design of the ruleset, characters, and the monster AI, from what I can see.
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Daniel Davis
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We'll see. Dungeon crawls are my thing - virtually all I play and collect. My copy of S&S arrives next week.

I haven't heard too much to get me excited, though. Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised!
 
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Skaak
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D_Davis wrote:
We'll see. Dungeon crawls are my thing - virtually all I play and collect. My copy of S&S arrives next week.

I haven't heard too much to get me excited, though. Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised!


I have no idea if S&S will be your cup of tea or not (as you can see looking around the forums people are generally happy with it, but there are a few who are not, for whatever reason). However, I guarantee that regardless of whether you like the game or not the developers put a lot more effort into it than would be required just for crafting some nice-looking miniatures.
 
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Jeff Fike
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More Mellotron wrote:
D_Davis wrote:
Huge disappointment that this ships with only 6-7 quests, and no random dungeon crawl mode.

Sounds like they put all their time and effort into the plastic.


Descent ships/shipped with roughly exactly as much of an initial campaign, FWIW. I didn't expect any more here, but in fact at least as a backer I get wave 2 with another batch of content at least as large, and I added the side campaign. But it also cost quite a bit more too.

I don't expect to see a random mode. Some people disagree but I don't think it fits the game play/design for reasons I can't articulate well. It feels "honed" in terms of balance and monster difficulty in a way that I think randomness would throw off.

The time here did not go into plastic. It went into the design of the ruleset, characters, and the monster AI, from what I can see.


I see huge potential for user created content, though. The story telling and configurable elements in this game make the potential really high. It's like Starcraft, the game is fun, but the user created mods were sometimes more fun than the game itself!
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Daniel Davis
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Skaak wrote:
D_Davis wrote:
We'll see. Dungeon crawls are my thing - virtually all I play and collect. My copy of S&S arrives next week.

I haven't heard too much to get me excited, though. Hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised!


I have no idea if S&S will be your cup of tea or not (as you can see looking around the forums people are generally happy with it, but there are a few who are not, for whatever reason). However, I guarantee that regardless of whether you like the game or not the developers put a lot more effort into it than would be required just for crafting some nice-looking miniatures.


I typically like more rogue-like experiences, games with endless random dungeons, in which the narrative is emergent, and relies on the players connecting the dots of what happens to their characters over a long period of time. More old school WHQ in flavor.

I don't typically like crafted campaigns, because they're never as good as what I can come up with in my own imagination. In my experience, board game developers are not the best story tellers (I read a lot of literary fantasy, so I have a particular bar set for what I consider a good fantasy story).

For some reason, I thought this game had random dungeons, with lots of non-combat and combat encounters, and side quests - obviously my error. I must have been getting this confused with Darklight. Oh well, I've got both ordered. If I don't like it, I'm sure I can use the pieces in other games.
 
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D_Davis wrote:
For some reason, I thought this game had random dungeons, with lots of non-combat and combat encounters, and side quests - obviously my error. I must have been getting this confused with Darklight. Oh well, I've got both ordered. If I don't like it, I'm sure I can use the pieces in other games.


Yes, Darklight is more like what you describe. I thought it was too pricey at the time for what you got so skipped on it but am very curious as to the final result.
 
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Vasilis
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Making my own stories is just about the last thing on the list of what I want my dungeon crawler to do.

I'm completely blown away by the amount of work put into all those different hero classes, their stats and their cards. When I spread the Hero dials on my table along with their power cards and realized that EVERY SINGLE HERO is different, I started to appreciate the work put into the game as a system. They can always add more quests, it's not that simple if the game system is bad...

It goes to show that not every dungeon crawler out there is the same as the others and not every DC out there fits for everyone. I want a fixed story, a PLAYTESTED scenario and a solid game system to keep me challenged. That's the reason why I bought Sword & Sorcery.

If it had randomly generated "beat em up" scenarios, a simplistic combat system and huge 'make your own, usually unbalanced, content" potential it would be nice but I honestly couldn't care less. So, to each his own, right?
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Scott Cantor
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schmoo34 wrote:

I see huge potential for user created content, though. The story telling and configurable elements in this game make the potential really high. It's like Starcraft, the game is fun, but the user created mods were sometimes more fun than the game itself!


Certainly that can happen, but it tends to be hit or miss. Some communities seem to get that spark of activity that generates a lot of new content and some just don't. We'll have to see, but certainly I'm hoping you're right.
 
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