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Subject: Different soul rewards for each enemy type rss

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Haakon Gaarder
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I've not tested this, but how about scrapping the normal 2 souls for finishing an encounter and do something like this instead:

Hollow/hollow xbow = 0.5 soul(rounded up)
Silver knight/archer = 1 soul
Big hollow = 2 souls
Sentinel = 3 souls
Mini boss = 6 souls??

That's per player.

Most level 1 encounters will yield 2 souls.

Level 2 encounters will give around 4 souls

Most level 3 encounters will be around 6 to 7 souls.

I imagine this would make the grinding slightly more immersive, and also open up strategic choices of choosing between grinding the harder encounters and the easier ones(given that you give firelink 2 dfferent exits). It will make the harder encounters much more satisfying as well. And of course this will speed up the game to around double. I think.

What do you think?
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Paul Liolio
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Yeah, I think there should be a soul amount on each enemy card representing how many souls that enemy yields when defeated. It's just not fun to get the flat rate per encounter.
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Arthur Howe
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If you look at the card examples from the kickstarter campaign you will see exactly that. Not sure why it changed. Of anything, this is the one thing I would house rule.
 
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Crazed Survivor
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artybaby wrote:
If you look at the card examples from the kickstarter campaign you will see exactly that. Not sure why it changed. Of anything, this is the one thing I would house rule.


They didn't have enough time to playtest it and went with the easiest rule is my guess.
 
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Henning Luhmann
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Our group went for the campaign play and we felt that souls rewards are lacking in terms of being unrelated to the actual difficulty of the encounter. Also in the later stages of the game you need more souls for leveling up, but souls bounty does not increase which makes the game way too grindy for our liking.
We fixed that one by the following rules (for campaign play!):

Encounters give 2 Souls base value.
Traps increase the bounty by 1 Soul.

Rewards for the enemy minions are:
Hollow/hollow xbow = 1 soul
Silver knight/archer = 2 souls
Big hollow = 4 souls
Sentinel = 5 souls
Bosses = 2.5 times average encounter souls leading up to the boss (not optimal, gotta work on this stat).

So the average souls bounty for encounters is:
Level 1: 5,75
Level 2: 9,42
Level 3: 14,67

We calculated that in a 3 player game of the campaign of dark souls 3 this would net you on average 184 souls in 1 playthrough. If every player wants to have stats like Tier 3,3,2,1 this would cost 216 souls. So if you redo some encounters to grind a little bit it should be possible to be end-equipped at the end-boss. also you need to look for souls at the armory which is not included in this calculation. so probably you will end up playing some encounters twice to gain the needed souls.

also to get the item system more interesting we thought about always drawing 2 cards from the treasure deck whenever you spend souls for items. one you can keep and one goes to the dump. this leads to interesting situations where you have to choose between a good item now or a good item later. Also this helps finding usable stuff in the early game too.
 
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Robert Marney
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As weird as this feels, it's actually for the sake of balance. You don't need bigger rewards for finishing a Tier 3 battle, since those aren't very hard by the time you face them. The tougher encounters in each tier have treasure chests already, which gives you a small extra reward. Perhaps chests should scale to 2 treasures per player instead?

However, a reward for killing the miniboss that incentivizes you to go straight for the boss instead of grinding out regular encounters several times would do wonders for the game's speed. The "double souls half sparks" rule accomplishes that in a rough way but there's more that could be done.
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Haakon Gaarder
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Trollstoi wrote:

Encounters give 2 Souls base value.
Traps increase the bounty by 1 Soul.

Rewards for the enemy minions are:
Hollow/hollow xbow = 1 soul
Silver knight/archer = 2 souls
Big hollow = 4 souls
Sentinel = 5 souls
Bosses = 2.5 times average encounter souls leading up to the boss (not optimal, gotta work on this stat).

So the average souls bounty for encounters is:
Level 1: 5,75
Level 2: 9,42
Level 3: 14,67

Hmm This is a much larger increase in souls than in mine. And very mathy to work out. Let's say you start with 2 level 1's and 2 level 2's. You'll get 5.75+5.75+9.42+9.42=30.34 in your first encounters, plus (30,34/4)*2.5= 18.96 for the mini boss. Total is 49.3 souls. That's around four times the vanilla game amount. Perhaps this is too good?

Trollstoi wrote:

We calculated that in a 3 player game of the campaign of dark souls 3 this would net you on average 184 souls in 1 playthrough. If every player wants to have stats like Tier 3,3,2,1 this would cost 216 souls. So if you redo some encounters to grind a little bit it should be possible to be end-equipped at the end-boss.

That's very clever, sounds nice to be end equipped in short playtime like that. But maybe you're not supposed to be that well equipped for the bosses unless you really grind away all the sparks? Might get too easy? Haven't played that much yet. But I did manage to create a fairly OP character in a solo play using vanilla rules, so I'm worried that having 3 or 4 maxed guys like that would reduce the need for strong positional play in the boss fight. Rigging the game to always get lots of souls might also reduce replayability as you'll go for the ultimate combos every time rather than trying to make some new sub optimal build work every time.

Trollstoi wrote:

also to get the item system more interesting we thought about always drawing 2 cards from the treasure deck whenever you spend souls for items. one you can keep and one goes to the dump. this leads to interesting situations where you have to choose between a good item now or a good item later. Also this helps finding usable stuff in the early game too.

Sounds cool. So those that go in "the dump" go to the bottom of the deck, or is it discarded?

EDIT: Aha, didn't notice until now you specify this is for campain play. Haven't read those rules yet, but leveling up requires more souls in that mode I think. Hmmm.
 
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Arthur Howe
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Robyrt wrote:

However, a reward for killing the miniboss that incentivizes you to go straight for the boss instead of grinding out regular encounters several times would do wonders for the game's speed. The "double souls half sparks" rule accomplishes that in a rough way but there's more that could be done.


We do this anyhow. Since you have to spend a spark to reset the other encounters, we just go straight for the mini-boss after clearing them the first time. There is really nothing to lose since you are going to use a spark at any rate. Sometimes we are successful that first time, others we are not. In my experience the Winged Knight and Gargoyle are easiest to kill this way. Boreal Outrider Knight needs a few more souls to beat and the titanite demon... Well yeah. No.

We tend to start leveling our characters for what treasure draws come up in the early game instead of grinding it out to find what we want as well.

ADDENDUM: I should also mention that this is vanilla DS. No variants, no double souls/half sparks.
 
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Henning Luhmann
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Haakon Gaarder wrote:
Trollstoi wrote:

Encounters give 2 Souls base value.
Traps increase the bounty by 1 Soul.

Rewards for the enemy minions are:
Hollow/hollow xbow = 1 soul
Silver knight/archer = 2 souls
Big hollow = 4 souls
Sentinel = 5 souls
Bosses = 2.5 times average encounter souls leading up to the boss (not optimal, gotta work on this stat).

So the average souls bounty for encounters is:
Level 1: 5,75
Level 2: 9,42
Level 3: 14,67

Hmm This is a much larger increase in souls than in mine. And very mathy to work out. Let's say you start with 2 level 1's and 2 level 2's. You'll get 5.75+5.75+9.42+9.42=30.34 in your first encounters, plus (30,34/4)*2.5= 18.96 for the mini boss. Total is 49.3 souls. That's around four times the vanilla game amount. Perhaps this is too good?


Thats not 4 times the amount from the vanilla game. in vanilla you get 5x6 souls (2 per player and encounter) as well as 9 souls for the boss (3 sparks times 3 players = 9 souls). The early game is pretty much the same with that.

Haakon Gaarder wrote:
Trollstoi wrote:

We calculated that in a 3 player game of the campaign of dark souls 3 this would net you on average 184 souls in 1 playthrough. If every player wants to have stats like Tier 3,3,2,1 this would cost 216 souls. So if you redo some encounters to grind a little bit it should be possible to be end-equipped at the end-boss.

That's very clever, sounds nice to be end equipped in short playtime like that. But maybe you're not supposed to be that well equipped for the bosses unless you really grind away all the sparks? Might get too easy? Haven't played that much yet. But I did manage to create a fairly OP character in a solo play using vanilla rules, so I'm worried that having 3 or 4 maxed guys like that would reduce the need for strong positional play in the boss fight. Rigging the game to always get lots of souls might also reduce replayability as you'll go for the ultimate combos every time rather than trying to make some new sub optimal build work every time.


having tier 3 3 2 1 is good but does not let you use everything. still you need to find the gear asa well as do some grinding to actually reach those levels (i mentioned you will not gain enough xp for everyone to have those tiers and then you didnt buy any items at all (which also cost 2 souls in campaign play). campaign play is just way too grindy in my opinion since everything costs ridiculous amounts of money but you dont get that many more souls to make up for the cost...

Haakon Gaarder wrote:
Trollstoi wrote:

also to get the item system more interesting we thought about always drawing 2 cards from the treasure deck whenever you spend souls for items. one you can keep and one goes to the dump. this leads to interesting situations where you have to choose between a good item now or a good item later. Also this helps finding usable stuff in the early game too.

Sounds cool. So those that go in "the dump" go to the bottom of the deck, or is it discarded?

EDIT: Aha, didn't notice until now you specify this is for campain play. Haven't read those rules yet, but leveling up requires more souls in that mode I think. Hmmm.
[/q]

in campaign play leveling up is 4/8/16/20 (Tier 4 is just 40 for every stat). so basically the tier 3 and tier 4 steps are incredibly hard and since you do need tier 3 for almost all of the good items in at least one stat we decided to improve rewards. i could just grind out level 1 encounters since theyre easy and net 6 souls each. then we would just stomp all the bosses and the game would be a no-brainer and no fun either. grinding at level 2 or 3 when you actually need to is way harder, takes longer, gives the same rewards and therefore is less fun. if someone wants to playtest it and give feedback about their experience i would be happy

edit: rules i proposed only work for a 3 player game you were right. its about the only way we played so i didnt notice
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Haakon Gaarder
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Yes I assumed you were thinking 49 souls per player divided by 3 it is quite close to vanilla(12 souls if 2 sparks) and my variant(around 18) My variant is easier to calculate though
 
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