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Subject: The term "may" rss

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John R
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Sorry if this was answered somewhere else, but I didn't see a direct explanation. I might be over-thinking this one.

Many of the cards use the word "may." We have been taking this to mean that you may or may not, it is up to you.

For example:
Robopocalypse 2057: "You may reveal the top card of the park deck until you find an upgrade you are allowed to build on this ride. You may build it immediately for free, if possible. Discard any unused cards. Stop if you empty the deck."

1. We assume that we don't have to use this power in the first place, only if we choose to.

2. So if I decide to use the power and draw a flagpole, for example, do I choose whether or not to build it since the term "may" is used, or is it implied that I am to build it as long as I can?

Another example:

Treasure Trove: When you use an action to draw cards, you may keep all cards you draw.

1. Must I keep all cards?

2. May I keep some and discard others?

3. May I choose to discard them all?

Thanks for your help. We are really enjoying the game!
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jfradkie wrote:
We have been taking this to mean that you may or may not, it is up to you.

I think you are over-thinking it. I can't recall any game that uses "may" in the rules, in any other way except how you have described above.

A round-about way of saying, yes, I think you're right in your interpretation.

Eek! You are avatar-less, have no geek gold, and no micro badges. Have some to rectify this situation.
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Paulo Renato
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You guys are definitively over-thinking this... it says MAY so it's a choice...

in the first example you don't have to use the power of the Robopocalypse... you may choose to activate it or not...

if you do you then stop drawing cards when the first upgrade that can be built on the ride appears... you then MAY choose to build it for free (if it's a duplicate of a card that you can't have duplicates you can't choose to build it)... it's all perfectly laid out on the card!

in the second example, as you guess, it's not 19 because it doesn't say MUST it says MAY... so you aren't obliged to keep all the cards...

So, again, it's your choice what cards, if any, that you want to keep. it's a bonus to you for the round
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Aaron Bredon
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Muse23PT wrote:
(if it's a duplicate of a card that you can't have duplicates you can't choose to build it)


If you draw a duplicate that can't be built on Robopocalypse, then it is not an upgrade that you are allowed to build on Robopocalypse, so you keep drawing.
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John R
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Thanks for the quick replies!
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abredon wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
(if it's a duplicate of a card that you can't have duplicates you can't choose to build it)


If you draw a duplicate that can't be built on Robopocalypse, then it is not an upgrade that you are allowed to build on Robopocalypse, so you keep drawing.


Are you sure? I ask because they say "if possible" the only way to not be able to build an upgrade on a ride that was a valid one is if you already have it and it's not one that you can duplicate.

For example you draw an Air Conditioning so you can't built on the ride because it can't be installed on thrill rides... You continue to draw... You draw a Confortable Seating upgrade... This, unlike the AC, can be built on Thrill Rides zo you stop drawing... Unfortunately you already have Confortable Seating on the ride, so it's not possible for you to build it... Discard all cards and the turn is over...

This is how I read it... Not saying it's the correct way but it makes sense to me
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Désirée Greverud
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Muse23PT wrote:
abredon wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
(if it's a duplicate of a card that you can't have duplicates you can't choose to build it)


If you draw a duplicate that can't be built on Robopocalypse, then it is not an upgrade that you are allowed to build on Robopocalypse, so you keep drawing.


Are you sure? I ask because they say "if possible" the only way to not be able to build an upgrade on a ride that was a valid one is if you already have it and it's not one that you can duplicate.

For example you draw an Air Conditioning so you can't built on the ride because it can't be installed on thrill rides... You continue to draw... You draw a Confortable Seating upgrade... This, unlike the AC, can be built on Thrill Rides zo you stop drawing... Unfortunately you already have Confortable Seating on the ride, so it's not possible for you to build it... Discard all cards and the turn is over...

This is how I read it... Not saying it's the correct way but it makes sense to me

you aren't looking for an upgrade that can be built on any ol' thrill ride. You are looking for an upgrade that can legally be build on the Robopocolypse in front of you. An upgrade you already have cannot legally be built, so you continue.
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Paulo Renato
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DragonsDream wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
abredon wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
(if it's a duplicate of a card that you can't have duplicates you can't choose to build it)


If you draw a duplicate that can't be built on Robopocalypse, then it is not an upgrade that you are allowed to build on Robopocalypse, so you keep drawing.


Are you sure? I ask because they say "if possible" the only way to not be able to build an upgrade on a ride that was a valid one is if you already have it and it's not one that you can duplicate.

For example you draw an Air Conditioning so you can't built on the ride because it can't be installed on thrill rides... You continue to draw... You draw a Confortable Seating upgrade... This, unlike the AC, can be built on Thrill Rides zo you stop drawing... Unfortunately you already have Confortable Seating on the ride, so it's not possible for you to build it... Discard all cards and the turn is over...

This is how I read it... Not saying it's the correct way but it makes sense to me

you aren't looking for an upgrade that can be built on any ol' thrill ride. You are looking for an upgrade that can legally be build on the Robopocolypse in front of you. An upgrade you already have cannot legally be built, so you continue.


The Robopocalypse despite being a showcase it's a Thrill Ride, so the limitation on upgrades that can't be built on Thrill Rides also apply to the Robopocalypse.

My reading of the text comes form the "If Possible" part of the text... if that wasn't there I would agree with you but it's on the text so, to me, it turns this action in to a 2 step process:

1- Is the card drawn an Upgrade that can be built on Thrill Rides? if so go to Step 2 if not repeat Step 1 again.

2- Is this a card that is Possible to build on this specific Thrill Ride? Meaning, is this a card that isn't already on the ride or if it is already on the ride can it be duplicated? If it is build it for Free... if not discard it along with all the cards drawn and play passes to the next player.

To me the "If Possible" makes all the difference in the world here... like I said, this is how I read it and I'm perfectly aware that I can be wrong... but I think it makes perfect sense what I'm saying
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Jens V
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There's another thread in this forum where this was discussed.
From the designer's response:
Quote:
Reasons you're not allowed to build include:

- not suitable for this type of attraction
- already present on this attraction
- no new upgrades are allowed on the attraction
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Paulo Renato
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Vertaler wrote:
There's another thread in this forum where this was discussed.
From the designer's response:
Quote:
Reasons you're not allowed to build include:

- not suitable for this type of attraction
- already present on this attraction
- no new upgrades are allowed on the attraction


thanks for the link and for the official reply... at least I saw that I wasn't the only one that thought it was a 2 Step process, so I feel validated

I have to say this is a very poorly written card that can cause this confusion
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Désirée Greverud
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Muse23PT wrote:
Vertaler wrote:
There's another thread in this forum where this was discussed.
From the designer's response:
Quote:
Reasons you're not allowed to build include:

- not suitable for this type of attraction
- already present on this attraction
- no new upgrades are allowed on the attraction


thanks for the link and for the official reply... at least I saw that I wasn't the only one that thought it was a 2 Step process, so I feel validated

I have to say this is a very poorly written card that can cause this confusion

what is poorly written about it? you invented a two step process, not the card. The cards asks if the upgrade is "allowed" to be build. You are not allowed to build comfortable seating when you already have it. You are not allowed to build air conditioning on a thrill ride. "allowed" covers both of your 2 steps. Not sure how it could be any clearer

You made a mistake. why blame the game?
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DragonsDream wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
Vertaler wrote:
There's another thread in this forum where this was discussed.
From the designer's response:
Quote:
Reasons you're not allowed to build include:

- not suitable for this type of attraction
- already present on this attraction
- no new upgrades are allowed on the attraction


thanks for the link and for the official reply... at least I saw that I wasn't the only one that thought it was a 2 Step process, so I feel validated

I have to say this is a very poorly written card that can cause this confusion

what is poorly written about it? you invented a two step process, not the card. The cards asks if the upgrade is "allowed" to be build. You are not allowed to build comfortable seating when you already have it. You are not allowed to build air conditioning on a thrill ride. "allowed" covers both of your 2 steps. Not sure how it could be any clearer

You made a mistake. why blame the game?


don't be so defensive... no need to be like that...

I didn't invent anything... Clearly I wasn't the only one to think that was how the card was resolved... if I wasn't the only one, at least to me, it's fair to say that the card isn't well written because it's open to different interpretations like the one I and other people did instead of the way it's intended to be used...
when this happens I say the card isn't well written and you can say what you want in whatever manner you want to say it and it doesn't make you right!

I made a mistake that was caused by how the card was written, I didn't pull it out of the air because I just thought it should be like that... and I wasn't the only one to have that exact same reading! That's all
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Shannon T
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Muse23PT wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
Vertaler wrote:
There's another thread in this forum where this was discussed.
From the designer's response:
Quote:
Reasons you're not allowed to build include:

- not suitable for this type of attraction
- already present on this attraction
- no new upgrades are allowed on the attraction


thanks for the link and for the official reply... at least I saw that I wasn't the only one that thought it was a 2 Step process, so I feel validated

I have to say this is a very poorly written card that can cause this confusion

what is poorly written about it? you invented a two step process, not the card. The cards asks if the upgrade is "allowed" to be build. You are not allowed to build comfortable seating when you already have it. You are not allowed to build air conditioning on a thrill ride. "allowed" covers both of your 2 steps. Not sure how it could be any clearer

You made a mistake. why blame the game?


don't be so defensive... no need to be like that...

I didn't invent anything... Clearly I wasn't the only one to think that was how the card was resolved... if I wasn't the only one, at least to me, it's fair to say that the card isn't well written because it's open to different interpretations like the one I and other people did instead of the way it's intended to be used...
when this happens I say the card isn't well written and you can say what you want in whatever manner you want to say it and it doesn't make you right!

I made a mistake that was caused by how the card was written, I didn't pull it out of the air because I just thought it should be like that... and I wasn't the only one to have that exact same reading! That's all



Very apprehensive to step into this somewhat heated part of the discussion, but I feel that because I think Paulo is referencing my responses in the other thread, I just wanted to say something.

Paulo, I also made a mistake by not understanding by what was meant by the phrase "if possible" on that card. This was mainly due to that phrase referencing a *future* mechanism in the game where some cards will state that they are not allowed to be built for free. Those are the cards that Robopocalypse is referencing.

If it helps, replace the phrase "if possible" with "so long as it is allowed to be built for free." So it would read as You may build it immediately for free, so long as it is allowed to be built for free. Hopefully that helps.

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thewagon wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
Vertaler wrote:
There's another thread in this forum where this was discussed.
From the designer's response:
Quote:
Reasons you're not allowed to build include:

- not suitable for this type of attraction
- already present on this attraction
- no new upgrades are allowed on the attraction


thanks for the link and for the official reply... at least I saw that I wasn't the only one that thought it was a 2 Step process, so I feel validated

I have to say this is a very poorly written card that can cause this confusion

what is poorly written about it? you invented a two step process, not the card. The cards asks if the upgrade is "allowed" to be build. You are not allowed to build comfortable seating when you already have it. You are not allowed to build air conditioning on a thrill ride. "allowed" covers both of your 2 steps. Not sure how it could be any clearer

You made a mistake. why blame the game?


don't be so defensive... no need to be like that...

I didn't invent anything... Clearly I wasn't the only one to think that was how the card was resolved... if I wasn't the only one, at least to me, it's fair to say that the card isn't well written because it's open to different interpretations like the one I and other people did instead of the way it's intended to be used...
when this happens I say the card isn't well written and you can say what you want in whatever manner you want to say it and it doesn't make you right!

I made a mistake that was caused by how the card was written, I didn't pull it out of the air because I just thought it should be like that... and I wasn't the only one to have that exact same reading! That's all



Very apprehensive to step into this somewhat heated part of the discussion, but I feel that because I think Paulo is referencing my responses in the other thread, I just wanted to say something.

Paulo, I also made a mistake by not understanding by what was meant by the phrase "if possible" on that card. This was mainly due to that phrase referencing a *future* mechanism in the game where some cards will state that they are not allowed to be built for free. Those are the cards that Robopocalypse is referencing.

If it helps, replace the phrase "if possible" with "so long as it is allowed to be built for free." So it would read as You may build it immediately for free, so long as it is allowed to be built for free. Hopefully that helps.



Emphasis in your comment is mine. The problem with that descriptive text is we have examples right now where "if possible" is the appropriate descriptor and not "So long as it is allowed to be built for free." If every attraction in your park has a flagpole on it, it is not possible to build an upgrade. Not because you're not allowed to build it for free, but because of other circumstances that prevent it's construction.
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DrProfHazzmatt wrote:
thewagon wrote:


Very apprehensive to step into this somewhat heated part of the discussion, but I feel that because I think Paulo is referencing my responses in the other thread, I just wanted to say something.

Paulo, I also made a mistake by not understanding by what was meant by the phrase "if possible" on that card. This was mainly due to that phrase referencing a *future* mechanism in the game where some cards will state that they are not allowed to be built for free. Those are the cards that Robopocalypse is referencing.

If it helps, replace the phrase "if possible" with "so long as it is allowed to be built for free." So it would read as You may build it immediately for free, so long as it is allowed to be built for free. Hopefully that helps.



Emphasis in your comment is mine. The problem with that descriptive text is we have examples right now where "if possible" is the appropriate descriptor and not "So long as it is allowed to be built for free." If every attraction in your park has a flagpole on it, it is not possible to build an upgrade. Not because you're not allowed to build it for free, but because of other circumstances that prevent it's construction.


I didn't mean, replace all instances ever of "if possible" with that clause, I meant replace it *for this card* in order to understand what they meant by "if possible" here. The designer confirmed in the referenced thread, that here on Robopocalypse it specifically refers to future cards that cannot be built for free.

Quote:
The problem with that descriptive text is we have examples right now where "if possible" is the appropriate descriptor and not "So long as it is allowed to be built for free."


You're probably right, could you provide those examples to refresh my memory?

Quote:
If every attraction in your park has a flagpole on it, it is not possible to build an upgrade. Not because you're not allowed to build it for free, but because of other circumstances that prevent it's construction.


This is covered by the first sentence that says " . . . until you find an upgrade you are allowed to build on this ride." In your scenario you would simply empty the deck, as confirmed by the designer in the other thread.


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thewagon wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
Vertaler wrote:
There's another thread in this forum where this was discussed.
From the designer's response:
Quote:
Reasons you're not allowed to build include:

- not suitable for this type of attraction
- already present on this attraction
- no new upgrades are allowed on the attraction


thanks for the link and for the official reply... at least I saw that I wasn't the only one that thought it was a 2 Step process, so I feel validated

I have to say this is a very poorly written card that can cause this confusion

what is poorly written about it? you invented a two step process, not the card. The cards asks if the upgrade is "allowed" to be build. You are not allowed to build comfortable seating when you already have it. You are not allowed to build air conditioning on a thrill ride. "allowed" covers both of your 2 steps. Not sure how it could be any clearer

You made a mistake. why blame the game?


don't be so defensive... no need to be like that...

I didn't invent anything... Clearly I wasn't the only one to think that was how the card was resolved... if I wasn't the only one, at least to me, it's fair to say that the card isn't well written because it's open to different interpretations like the one I and other people did instead of the way it's intended to be used...
when this happens I say the card isn't well written and you can say what you want in whatever manner you want to say it and it doesn't make you right!

I made a mistake that was caused by how the card was written, I didn't pull it out of the air because I just thought it should be like that... and I wasn't the only one to have that exact same reading! That's all



Very apprehensive to step into this somewhat heated part of the discussion, but I feel that because I think Paulo is referencing my responses in the other thread, I just wanted to say something.

Paulo, I also made a mistake by not understanding by what was meant by the phrase "if possible" on that card. This was mainly due to that phrase referencing a *future* mechanism in the game where some cards will state that they are not allowed to be built for free. Those are the cards that Robopocalypse is referencing.

If it helps, replace the phrase "if possible" with "so long as it is allowed to be built for free." So it would read as You may build it immediately for free, so long as it is allowed to be built for free. Hopefully that helps.



I understand what you say Shannon and like I said here, the "If Possible" without any other context on the card and on the rulebook suggests to me, like apparently did to you that this was a 2 step process like I explained above...

By doing this I think I'm allowed to say that this card is poorly written due to lack of context anywhere in the game at this point and it was a fair deduction of how the card worked the way you and I read it... that was all... I wasn't inventing anything it was just there open to that interpretation.

I wasn't bashing the game, the designer... I very much like this game... and love the way that the designer is active here on the forums but that doesn't prevent me to say that something is wrong when I feel that something is wrong
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This has been a lively discussion!

To answer the original question, "may" gives the player a choice.

When using Treasure Trove, an additional option is added to the usual options available, which the player may exercise. Normally when you use an action, you draw 2 cards and then choose one to keep and discard the other, or you discard a card to draw 5 and choose one to keep. Treasure Trove adds an additional ability that you can choose to exercise, namely keeping all the cards you draw.

There's no in-between option - you either exercise the normal ability to draw and then keep 1, or you exercise the Treasure Trove ability to draw and then keep all. Discard is available via the usual method in the Cleanup step.

Robopocalypse 2057, like the rules for all cards, gives a series of instructions to enact in sequence.

First, if you choose to exercise the ability at all, you reveal the top card of the Park deck until the card revealed is allowed to be built on the Robopocalypse. This means:

- is an upgrade
- is suitable to build on a thrill ride
- does not violate the no-duplicate-upgrade rule
- no other rule prevents it being built (eg. Flagpole)

Then, having found a card that is allowed to be built, the next sentence offers the option of building it for free, if possible. You can choose not to build it. You may also not be able to build it for free.

I understand that offers a point of confusion, but the reason is that I need to future-proof the cards so that they will be compatible with later expansion packs, and there will be cases later where you are allowed to build an upgrade but you are not allowed to build it for free.

Such upgrades are allowed to be built on that attraction, so they pass the first sentence, but they are not allowed to be built for free, so the fail the second sentence. The upgrades in question literally state "cannot be built for free".

It's also possible, although nothing is yet planned to use this, that some future card may ban players from building for free that round - say if they were under an evil curse, or being investigated by the IRS.

Although the "cannot be built for free" rule outranks the "may build for free" rule and would prevent the free build anyway, the wording "if possible" is meant as a reminder to check that the card can be built for free. In the current set of theme packs, all upgrades that can be built at all can be built for free, but that reminder will (I hope!) be useful later when some cards can't.
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Quote:
thewagon wrote:
Emphasis in your comment is mine. The problem with that descriptive text is we have examples right now where "if possible" is the appropriate descriptor and not "So long as it is allowed to be built for free." If every attraction in your park has a flagpole on it, it is not possible to build an upgrade. Not because you're not allowed to build it for free, but because of other circumstances that prevent it's construction.


I didn't mean, replace all instances ever of "if possible" with that clause, I meant replace it *for this card* in order to understand what they meant by "if possible" here. The designer confirmed in the referenced thread, that here on Robopocalypse it specifically refers to future cards that cannot be built for free.

Quote:
The problem with that descriptive text is we have examples right now where "if possible" is the appropriate descriptor and not "So long as it is allowed to be built for free."


You're probably right, could you provide those examples to refresh my memory?

Quote:
If every attraction in your park has a flagpole on it, it is not possible to build an upgrade. Not because you're not allowed to build it for free, but because of other circumstances that prevent it's construction.


This is covered by the first sentence that says " . . . until you find an upgrade you are allowed to build on this ride." In your scenario you would simply empty the deck, as confirmed by the designer in the other thread.


Deleted a bunch of the quoted stuff because it was getting too long. So I went back and read the thread that was linked and I remember reading through that. Reading through it again, your interpretation is correct. However, saying "You may build this for free so long as it is allowed to be built for free" is waaaaay too wordy though. If possible says the same thing in a lot less words.
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Muse23PT wrote:
My reading of the text comes form the "If Possible" part of the text... if that wasn't there I would agree with you but it's on the text so, to me, it turns this action in to a 2 step process:

1- Is the card drawn an Upgrade that can be built on Thrill Rides? if so go to Step 2 if not repeat Step 1 again.

2- Is this a card that is Possible to build on this specific Thrill Ride? Meaning, is this a card that isn't already on the ride or if it is already on the ride can it be duplicated? If it is build it for Free... if not discard it along with all the cards drawn and play passes to the next player.

To me the "If Possible" makes all the difference in the world here... like I said, this is how I read it and I'm perfectly aware that I can be wrong... but I think it makes perfect sense what I'm saying


Hi Paulo! I just wanted to step in to make a comment as well, even though the answer has already been provided. You are absolutely right that it is a two step process. In fact, most of the cards in this game should be taken in steps. It's actually one of the reasons I love the game so much. However, I think the problem was that you over thunk it just a tad which made your 1st step flawed. It should simply read:

1- Is the card drawn an Upgrade that can be built on Thrill Rides the Robopocalypse*? if so go to Step 2 if not repeat Step 1 again.

2- Do I want to build it on Robopocalypse? If so, then build it for free. Otherwise, discard it.

The fact that it is a Thrill ride shouldn't be the defining decision. It's first and foremost, The Robopocalypse 2057, which coincidentally, is a Thrill ride.

*Typing this post made me realize just how hard it was to spell Robopocalypse.
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DrProfHazzmatt
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West Chester
Pennsylvania
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Riding the Kickstarter hype train since 2015.
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Malistar22 wrote:
Muse23PT wrote:
My reading of the text comes form the "If Possible" part of the text... if that wasn't there I would agree with you but it's on the text so, to me, it turns this action in to a 2 step process:

1- Is the card drawn an Upgrade that can be built on Thrill Rides? if so go to Step 2 if not repeat Step 1 again.

2- Is this a card that is Possible to build on this specific Thrill Ride? Meaning, is this a card that isn't already on the ride or if it is already on the ride can it be duplicated? If it is build it for Free... if not discard it along with all the cards drawn and play passes to the next player.

To me the "If Possible" makes all the difference in the world here... like I said, this is how I read it and I'm perfectly aware that I can be wrong... but I think it makes perfect sense what I'm saying


Hi Paulo! I just wanted to step in to make a comment as well, even though the answer has already been provided. You are absolutely right that it is a two step process. In fact, most of the cards in this game should be taken in steps. It's actually one of the reasons I love the game so much. However, I think the problem was that you over thunk it just a tad which made your 1st step flawed. It should simply read:

1- Is the card drawn an Upgrade that can be built on Thrill Rides the Robopocalypse*? if so go to Step 2 if not repeat Step 1 again.

2- Do I want to build it on Robopocalypse? If so, then build it for free, if possible. Otherwise, discard it.

The fact that it is a Thrill ride shouldn't be the defining decision. It's first and foremost, The Robopocalypse 2057, which coincidentally, is a Thrill ride.

*Typing this post made me realize just how hard it was to spell Robopolcalypse.


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Shannon T
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Peakhurst
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DrProfHazzmatt wrote:
Reading through it again, your interpretation is correct. However, saying "You may build this for free so long as it is allowed to be built for free" is waaaaay too wordy though. If possible says the same thing in a lot less words.


Agreed. But I wasn't suggesting it as a text change for the publisher to make on the card. I was suggesting it to Paulo as a way of interpreting what is meant by "if possible" on that card. Replacing it in his mind not replacing it on the card.
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Jason Williams
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Also responding to the original question. I notice people keep saying "Draw" for Robopocalypse but you're not drawing anything either, so you don't get to choose to draw a card that is build-able and just keep it in your hand.

You reveal cards from the top of the deck. so you're placing them to the side, if you reveal one that is possible to build and you opt to not build it, it gets discarded with all the other revealed cards.
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