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Subject: Newb combat sequence question rss

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Walt B
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So my wife and I are playing our second game ever and among many, I have encountered a question I don't know how to find the answer to easily.

I'm sure it's pretty straightforward but not sure how to find it.
Basically I just put down Blood Hunter bat which says "when bat enters the battlefield Target player loses two life and you gain two life."

My wife responded with Divine verdict, obviously an instant which reads destroy target attacking or blocking creature.

I am uncertain of the sequence of events.
Since I just put the bat on the battlefield I really didn't attack or block however she would receive two damage. So I'm not sure if Divine verdict is a valid instant and if so would the damage go through or be prevented?

Thanks for the help again!
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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Hoo boy. OK here we go:

Once the bat enters the battlefield, the "Target player loses 2 life and you gain 2 life" goes on the stack. What happens to the bat after that is immaterial, the effect will happen (unless you play some really corner case cards that specifically counter stuff on the stack).

The bat is *not* attacking (that can only happen during the combat phase, not during one of your main phases (which is the only time you can play the bat)), so she could not play Divine Verdict on it at that point. Note that even if she had an instant "destroy target creature" spell that she *could* play, the life drain would still happen.

I don't know if BGG will be the best place for Magic questions (maybe there's a reddit?), but hope that helps.
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Iain K
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You were not attacking with the Bat, so Divine Verdict has no effect and goes to the graveyard (discard pile). The Bat's enter the battlefield effect then takes affect and she loses 2 life while you gain two.

If she wanted to prevent the Bat from damaging her, she needs to play a card that keeps it from "resolving" ... from entering the battlefield. Essence Scatter is such card:



 
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Matt Vollick
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Well your blood hunter bat wasn't declared as an attacker or as a blocker so no Divine Verdict wouldn't be able to be cast at that point.

The second issue is that Blood Hunter Bat has an enter the battlefield trigger (lots of creature do) and even if this trigger causes damage or life loss it isn't considered to be attacking.
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Walt B
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Thanks everyone it is oftentimes better to hear rules explanation from someone other than ones spouse lol.
Also, if this isn't the proper place for (redundant) questions I could go elsewhere with them .. Would Reddit be a better option?
 
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Cyrus the Great
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Reddit or MTG Salvation will probably give you a quicker answer most of the time.
 
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Walt B
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Renaissance Man wrote:
Reddit or MTG Salvation will probably give you a quicker answer most of the time.


Noted thanks for that !
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Tyler Bishop
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citizen k wrote:
You were not attacking with the Bat, so Divine Verdict has no effect and goes to the graveyard (discard pile).[/IMG]



Clarifying for readers, while the rest of this post is good, the quoted sentence is incorrect. If a targetting spell does not have a valid target during announcement (and this spell would not, as there is nothing for it to be legally declared as targeting during your main phase), the game essentially rewinds to before the spell was announced. It would return to its owner's hand, and no mana would be spent.

And a further tip for the OP: Magic is a very, very literal game when it comes to the text on cards. "It's dealing damage, that seems like an attack to me" is not the logic that the game runs by. Attacking has a very narrow and specific meaning that is divorced from what a new player may see as intuitive, and the word is intentionally not used in the text for your creature. Follow everything exactly as it is written, not as you'd think the designers may have meant!

:edit: forgot a word.
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Jerry Martin
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I think this is a great place for asking questions. I am subscribed to the forum and I know I am not the only one happy to answer questions.
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Christian Gienger
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Syvanis wrote:
I think this is a great place for asking questions. I am subscribed to the forum and I know I am not the only one happy to answer questions.


This.
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Mark McEvoy
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When the questions are as introductory as they are in cases like this, there are lots of people here who can answer correctly and concisely. However, there is nothing stopping people here from giving wrong answers (like Iain did above) and requiring others to post clarifications and corrections (as Tyler did above) which may leave the question asker at least a little confused. On a site like mtgs, the moderators would quickly jump on and edit the incorrect answer so as not to leave a post with contradictory answers in place.
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Dan Regs
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Syvanis wrote:
I think this is a great place for asking questions. I am subscribed to the forum and I know I am not the only one happy to answer questions.


I second this. I am also subscribed to this rules thread, because as a magic Judge I like to see people get the game and have fun with it (also so I can clarify situations).

The fact that I rarely have to step in and offer my expert opinion is a testiment to the detail, accuracy, and response time of the community in this forum.

So keep asking, and keep answering!
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Walt B
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Ah very cool glad to see BGG is still a good resource for asking for help...I'll try to keep them concise and search as best I can!
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Joakim Björklund
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Floridawalt wrote:
Ah very cool glad to see BGG is still a good resource for asking for help...I'll try to keep them concise and search as best I can!


BGG is really ok for these types of questions. Usually somebody will answer them fairly quickly. The Reddit subgroup (https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/) and MTGSalvation are ok as well. Although I hardly ever visit MTGSalvation anymore since they moved to the new site, so I don't know what the standard of the forums are these days. On Reddit you get answers quickly, and it's probably the best place to get news (since most new stuff gets linked there by someone).

For really complicated rules interactions you can try the Facebook group "Ask the Judge" (https://www.facebook.com/groups/MTGAskTheJudge/), youäll get answers fast there and you can rely on them being correct.

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Walt B
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Re: Newb combat sequence question...newb Mid Game question
Mid game newb question...my wife is in disagreement with me that My instant (shock)that reads deal 2 damage to Target creature or player.
She is saying She gets to decide who takes the hit obviously I disagree. It's my instant, I choose where the damage goes.

Thanks for the help and patience
 
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Christian Gienger
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The controller of the spell decides the target. So if you cast Shock, you decide what target suffers 2 damage.


Note that there are cards that target a player that has to do something like. Target player sacrifices a creature. Then you cast it and choose a player. That player has then to choose which among their creatures they sacrifice.
 
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Walt B
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Locu wrote:
The controller of the spell decides the target. So if you cast Shock, you decide what target suffers 2 damage.


And.. I thank you Sir !
 
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Walt B
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Sorry in advance... while I'm on a roll here, my wife also took exception to my explanation of "Wrangle" which I believe Allowed the card holder to take control of *any creature 4/4 or less (including your opponent)
She didn't like that all too much.

 
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Christian Gienger
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When you cast Wrangle you choose target creature with power 4 (that means 4/x, so it can be a 4/4, but also 4/19 or 4/1) or less (So 1/1 is equally fine or 3/7).
When the spell resolves you gain control of that creature until end of turn. So you treat it as it was you who cast the creature in the first place. If it leaves play during that time it still goes to their owner's zone (their hand if it's bounced, their graveyard if it dies).
 
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