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This War of Mine: The Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Shovel rss

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Brian Kuijpers
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Why should anyone use a shovel to clear the rubble piles in your shelter ?

Using one character 4 actions, 6 components and 2 woods are needed :
-First action : Make shovel (cost 3 components + 1 wood)
-Second action : Reduce rubbel to rubble remenants -> discard shovel
-Third action : Make shovel (cost 3 components + 1 wood)
-Fourth action : Clear rubbel remenants -> discard shovel

Using two characters only 4 combined actions are needed:
-First actions both characters: Reduce ruble to ruble remenants
-Second action both characters: Clear rubbel remenants

So why would someone use a shovel to clear the rubble if using two charcters is in fact is as quick and cheaper in resources?
 
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Josh
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Reread the page on day actions. It says you don't discard the shovel when you use it, under 'actions on shelter cards.' You return the shovel, sawblade, or unsuccessfully used lockpick to storage. The only tool you discard is a successfully used lockpick.
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Brian Kuijpers
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Okay now after reading it for the 10th time ... return to the STORAGE ... and not discard....

pfff... okay THANX man ...
 
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Josh
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No worries, but careful reading is important for TWOM. They tell you what to do, but it is easy to plug expectations in instead of what is written.
 
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Universal Head
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Do you roll on the lockpick table when you use a shovel hatchet? It says you use it just like a lockpick, so we weren't sure when we played if you did or not.

EDIT: I caused a lot of confusion by writing shovel when I meant Marko's hatchet. Doh.
 
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Marcus S
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UniversalHead wrote:
Do you roll on the lockpick table when you use a shovel? It says you use it just like a lockpick, so we weren't sure when we played if you did or not.

No, a shovel is always "successful".
 
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Josh
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UniversalHead wrote:
Do you roll on the lockpick table when you use a shovel? It says you use it just like a lockpick, so we weren't sure when we played if you did or not.


Actions on Shelter Cards

Place a character on a chosen shelter card. The result of an action on a shelter card is resolving it's back. Some Shelter cards(Rubble, Bars, or Closed Doors) require placing a certain token from storage(A shovel, a sawblade, or a lockpick) on that card in addition to a character. Return that token to the storage after the action. In the case of a Rubble/Rubble remnants card, instead of a shovel you may place an additional character.

Action from a closed door card requires making a roll as described below.

Pick The Lock - Requires a Lockpick
Roll the black die
Result= 1-3 No effect.
Result= 4-10 Discard the Lockpick, then resolve the back of this card.
 
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Universal Head
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Yes, I saw the rule, but as you can see, the way it's written is very amibiguous. Marko's card says "Marko may use a Hatchet to open Locked Doors as if he was using a Lockpick" (italics mine).
 
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Josh
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It's not ambiguous. Things are returned to storage. The lock pick may be discarded during use which would necessarily prevent it from returning to storage.

Marko's ability is explained under character skills faq(entry 101 in book of script, reference to it under setup-selecting characters)

Break In- when Marko uses a Hatchet instead of a lockpick, do not discard the hatchet after opening a closed door.
 
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Universal Head
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I have no issue with the question of whether or not the shovel hatchet is discarded; as you point out, it says in the rules that it isn't. What I think isn't clear is whether or not you roll on the lockpick table for it to 'work' (ie, there's a chance using the hatchet doesn't open the door - which would be a perfectly reasonable mechanic since opening a door with a hatchet in real life would be time-consuming and hard work).

It's unclear enough to make me question it. After writing hundreds of rules summaries I feel I have a pretty good understanding of writing unambiguous rules.

EDIT: corrected mistake.
 
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Josh
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You make the roll when taking an action on the closed door card, it's stated there in the quoted paragraph. You don't ever use the shovel on a closed door card, and it doesn't say to make the roll for any other shelter cards.
 
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Marcus S
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UniversalHead wrote:
I have no issue with the question of whether or not the shovel is discarded; as you point out, it says in the rules that it isn't. What I think isn't clear is whether or not you roll on the lockpick table for it to 'work' (ie, there's a chance using the hatchet doesn't open the door - which would be a perfectly reasonable mechanic since opening a door with a hatchet in real life would be time-consuming and hard work).

It's unclear enough to make me question it. After writing hundreds of rules summaries I feel I have a pretty good understanding of writing unambiguous rules.

It sounds like you are asking two different things: one about the shovel and one about Marko's hatchet. For the shovel, I really don't understand where you get that you would need to roll for it... nowhere does it say that there is a chance that the shovel or sawblade are unsuccessful... they always work and are never discarded.

Although for Markos ability, it clearly states that you do not discard the hatchet, although it isn't clearly stated if you must roll for success...I think this is a valid question but totally unrelated to the use of a shovel.
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Universal Head
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Shadrach wrote:
You make the roll when taking an action on the closed door card, it's stated there in the quoted paragraph. You don't ever use the shovel on a closed door card, and it doesn't say to make the roll for any other shelter cards.


Sorry, we're talking about the hatchet now. I just looked back and say that I said shovel instead of hatchet in two posts. I'M AN IDIOT. I thought you were being obtuse when in fact the confusion was all my fault. Sorry!

1. The subject of my query is Marko's HATCHET.
2. The card says you can use it 'as if he was using a lockpick'. In the rules it's specifically stated that it isn't discarded after use.
3. Since using a lockpick requires rolling on a table, I'm asking if you need to roll on that table when you use Marko's hatchet. Nowhere in the rules does it make it clear if you do or not.

I should have started a new thread on this subject - I apologise for hijacking this one.
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Josh
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UniversalHead wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
You make the roll when taking an action on the closed door card, it's stated there in the quoted paragraph. You don't ever use the shovel on a closed door card, and it doesn't say to make the roll for any other shelter cards.


Sorry, we're talking about the hatchet now. I just looked back and say that I said shovel instead of hatchet in two posts. I'M AN IDIOT. I thought you were being obtuse when in fact the confusion was all my fault. Sorry!

1. The subject of my query is Marko's HATCHET.
2. The card says you can use it 'as if he was using a lockpick'. In the rules it's specifically stated that it isn't discarded after use.
3. Since using a lockpick requires rolling on a table, I'm asking if you need to roll on that table when you use Marko's hatchet. Nowhere in the rules does it make it clear if you do or not.

I should have started a new thread on this subject - I apologise for hijacking this one.


You do roll. It is used as a lockpick, with all the things that entails, except that in the event of success you do not discard the hatchet. It isn't explocit, but follows the standard practice of follow the rules unless told not to.
 
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Universal Head
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Ah-HA! You do roll. Well, that definitely could have been clearer in the rules. BTW, excuse me for asking, but is this 'official', or just your opinion?
 
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Josh
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UniversalHead wrote:
Ah-HA! You do roll. Well, that definitely could have been clearer in the rules. BTW, excuse me for asking, but is this 'official', or just your opinion?


It's as official as you can find outside Awakened Realms in that they've thanked me for fielding questions(when I submitted a question to them) so while I may not be right all the time, I at least seem to be on the right wavelength . We had a similar discussion in another thread I believe, and it came down this way. You use the hatchet *as a lockpick* however you do not discard it.
 
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Universal Head
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Thanks Josh. Sorry for the confusion I caused with this one!
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