Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Commands & Colors Tricorne: The American Revolution» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rally Checks rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mark McG
Australia
Penshurst
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Reading through the rules, the Rally check kind of gives me the willies, but I also am uncertain of it's application.

A rally check is made after the unit completes it's retreat move.
Each flag scored (that cannot be ignored) causes a unit to make a retreat move.

So my question is, if a unit must make 2 retreat moves, must it roll for Rally twice?
If so, does it retreat once, roll for Rally, and if it passes, retreat again and then roll for rally again, or does it complete the whole retreat (perhaps to an unattached leader) and roll for Rally twice (using the leader bonus)?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Giulio
Italy
Scandiano
RE
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I read the rules fast and my understanding was that you make one roll at the end of all the retreats. After your post I read them again and in fact at p.13 they say "For each retreat flag rolled against a unit, the unit must make its retreat movement towards its own side of the battlefield. Two flags will force the unit to make two retreat movements". Thus I would say one rally check for each flag that cannot be ignored and leads to a retreat.

This would make retreat extremely dangerous. But it is also true that, as far as I understand, the number of dice normally rolled in an attack are lower in this game than the number of dice typically rolled in other C&C games, which also means a lower number of flags per attack.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd have to double-check, but I'm pretty sure you only have to make one rally check after resolving all retreat movement in a combat/battle. So if you have to resolve two flags you can't ignore, the check would come _after_ resolving the movement/effects of both flags.

But you do have to make one after a voluntary Retire and Rally--which can reward you with a nasty shock if you don't get that flag face!

There are two flags on a 'Tricorne die. All other C&C dice have but one. It is also true that it appears that you roll fewer dice in combat than in many other C&C games, but you pick up combat dice for being at full strength and having an attached leader. But in the main, in this game, we're going to see a lot more flag faces than we're used to seeing in other C&C games. We're going to want to see them to cause retreats and we're going to want to see them when rallying after a retreat.

Also, I think we're going to see more more dice rolled when rallying than when battling. That should mitigate the loss of dice when battling.

I'm kinda curious to see how folks will react to the added dice-rolling. We didn't have to roll dice to see the final result of a retreat/retire/evade. Now we will.

Edit: Okay, I'm hanging my interpretation on these two points:

Quote:
(p.14) Unit must Retreat, but Cannot: When a unit cannot retreat, because its retreat path is occupied or it is forced to retreat off the limits of the battlefield, one block must be removed from the unit for each retreat hex of movement that cannot be completed. After loses are removed from the unit, the unit must still make its rally check, even if the unit did not retreat from its original hex.

Quote:
(p.14) Rally Check: A unit that retreats must make a rally check after it completes its retreat movement. The rally check will determine whether the retreating unit can be rallied and remain on the battlefield or will continue to retreat and rout off the battlefield.

In both passages, it states that a rally check is made after block losses are satisfied and after retreat movement is completed. Though no examples are provided, these two passages lead me to believe that a rally check is made after resolving/completing all retreat effects/movement for a given combat.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Snow
United States
New York City
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
meeple I'm going to weigh in on just one morale roll per unit per battle result as well. That is my sense of the rules.

Also, if that's not the case, the game would become so slow and complicated, that it would break down, which is not how Mr. Borg designs games!

It must be frustrating for designers when there is confusion about such a basic issue. On the other hand, sometimes they or their "representatives" will defend their wording to the death, rather than just make it clearer with a simple answer, let alone a change or clarification. The worst is when they are so busy defending their rules as is that they don't even clearly answer the question! Which just makes me sigh whistle.

Then its House Rule time...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like examples myself. A simple one to show how a rule is implemented and a more complex one (or two) that re-occurred during play tests to show how to handle an unusual case.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
my eye
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, I'd be fairly shocked if a rally check was required for each flag.
Quote:
Rally Check: A unit that retreats must make a rally check after it completes its retreat movement.

I always considered a retreat movement resulting from one battle as one move, regardless of the flags/hexes required.


And since we're talking about Rally check rules, this is the one that made my eyes pop:
Quote:
Leader Eliminated: When a leader is hit and eliminated, remove the leader block from the battlefield and collect a Victory Banner. However, before the leader block is removed, a unit in the same hex as the leader and all friendly units on adjacent hexes to the eliminated leader must make a rally check.

Kinda ups the leader risk/reward anty. Should be interesting the first time someone loses one or two units to this rule.




2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
One rally check.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Borg
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
mb
Mark Raised the question and Giullo answered, but the answer was not quite correct. The correct interpretation, is that a rally check is made by a unit after all of the unit's retreat movement has been made. Page 13 refers to retreat movement, not when to make rally checks. But I can see how this could be viewed.

I guess an example, or a little additional explanation would have answered Mark's question and guided Giullo to a more correct answer. Thanks for posting guys.

Compass has told me the Tricorne game should be shipping in just a few days. I hope you will be ready for a completely different Commands & Colors gaming experience. I will be here watching, so please post and enjoy what your about to receive!

Thanks
Richard Borg
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Minot
North Dakota
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So . .. just to be perfectly clear . . .

If you role two or more (non-ignored) flags, do you make one rally check, or two or more rally checks?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
StevenE Smooth Sailing...
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Per RB...

richard borg wrote:
Mark Raised the question and Giullo answered, but the answer was not quite correct. The correct interpretation, is that a rally check is made by a unit after all of the unit's retreat movement has been made. Page 13 refers to retreat movement, not when to make rally checks. But I can see how this could be viewed.

I guess an example, or a little additional explanation would have answered Mark's question and guided Giullo to a more correct answer. Thanks for posting guys.

Compass has told me the Tricorne game should be shipping in just a few days. I hope you will be ready for a completely different Commands & Colors gaming experience. I will be here watching, so please post and enjoy what your about to receive!

Thanks
Richard Borg


Apply a retreat for each flag.
When done retreating conduct a rally check.

So one rally check.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Gregg

St. Paul
Minnesota
msg tools
I think everyone has chimed in to answer the question - One Rally at the end of the retreat (or losses in lieu of retreating).

I just finished my first play through of Bunker Hill. I thought the rules worked really well. When units have leaders and/or terrain they tend to stand. When they don't they are likely to fall back, and when they do those brittle provincials and militia may not stop running! We had many retreats, and only one unit that failed its rally. Not surprisingly it was a depleted American Militia unit that only was able to roll 1 die.

The earth works and fences for the Americans in this scenario removed a lot of flag results that could have led to retreats and failed rallies.

Can't wait to play the next scenario.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.