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Subject: Crew Movement rss

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GB Paul
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Here's the situation. I'm in Zone 5 outbound to Bremen. My ship is attacked by two waves of enemy aircraft. The first wave (FW190 VD) is claimed shot down by the top turret gunner. The second wave 2 of the 3 attacking enemy aircraft are shot down but the third scores some hits. After resolving damage the Co-Pilot is KIA and the RW gunner is SW. Here's my question.

If the Radio Operator moves into the RW gunner position, when is he allowed to fire?

The E/A that inflicted the damage has a chance for a successive attack. If he is successful, the Radio Operator would not be allowed to fire but could then fire in the next zone (Zone 6 out)? If the E/A misses is the Radio Operator restricted from firing the RW gun until Zone 7?

Can anyone shed some light?

Thank you
 
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Tony Holt
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Hmmm, the rules do not specifically state when a crew member can start a movement. If the Radioman can move immediately, my take is he'd be able to fire starting with zone 6. If the Radioman has to wait until the start of a new turn (current zone or not), then he'd have to wait until zone 6 to start his movement, and not able to fire until zone 7.

Honestly, the way I've been playing it is that a crew member cannot initiate movement until the start of a turn, so I'd say Zone 7 in your situation, but in looking at the rules I cannot find any reference that would confirm or preclude the immediate start of movement.

Tony
 
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Prisoner of Conscience
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Interesting...

Regarding ammo replenishment:

Ammunition may be shifted from one gun firing position to another. As the bomber enters a zone, any crewman my leave his station, move to any gun position/turret with ammunition available and move some or all of that gun/turret's remaining ammunition to a gun position/turret that is out of ammunition. The crewman may NOT fire a gun or perform any other duties like fire fighting while so engaged in the current zone. After the player designates the crewman to perform the transfer he simply crosses off however many boxes of ammunition that the crewman is moving from the gun position/turret with ammunition and erases an equal number of boxes on the gun position/turret that is out of ammunition.

I would err that a crewman can only change position when entering a new zone.

They can either:

1. Get ammo and move back.
2. Stay in the new position and fire next turn/zone.

IMO

Under Crew Movement:

During turns when no waves of attacking fighters appear, or after all fighters are driven off by either friendly fighter cover or other Bombers (by rolling a "No Attackers" result on Table 5-3), crew movements are made with no penalty. These safe turns are the only time crew movements may be made if the intercom system is out.

If crew movements are made in a zone where the Bomber is attacked, certain penalties accrue. The moving crew members may not fire any guns from either their old or new position, until the attacks (both initial and successive) of one wave of fighters have been resolved. Crew movements can be made within the same compartment with no penalty. For example, the Waist Gunners can switch guns during an attack. The navigator or bombardier may switch freely between the nose gun and either cheek gun or between cheek guns.

There is no penalty for moving a wounded crewman.


So that seems to indicate that they can at the start of the attack, but cannot fire old or new until the first wave is over.

So if they fired first wave, they cannot move until the next zone/turn.
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Mark Cicero
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klkitchens wrote:
Interesting...
Under Crew Movement:

During turns when no waves of attacking fighters appear, or after all fighters are driven off by either friendly fighter cover or other Bombers (by rolling a "No Attackers" result on Table 5-3), crew movements are made with no penalty. These safe turns are the only time crew movements may be made if the intercom system is out.

If crew movements are made in a zone where the Bomber is attacked, certain penalties accrue. The moving crew members may not fire any guns from either their old or new position, until the attacks (both initial and successive) of one wave of fighters have been resolved. Crew movements can be made within the same compartment with no penalty. For example, the Waist Gunners can switch guns during an attack. The navigator or bombardier may switch freely between the nose gun and either cheek gun or between cheek guns.

There is no penalty for moving a wounded crewman.


So that seems to indicate that they can at the start of the attack, but cannot fire old or new until the first wave is over.

So if they fired first wave, they cannot move until the next zone/turn.


Not quite the way I would read it. The underlined section of the second paragraph refers to waves, and essentially says they can't participate until one wave has been completely resolved

If a crewmember fires at the first wave, they would have to "sit out" the second wave, regardless of how many runs the various fighters make. They could, however, then fire at the thrid wave -- if there is one, of course.

This interpretation seems to make sense as otherwise there would be no particular reason to make the distinction in the first paragraph.
 
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Prisoner of Conscience
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NorthstarNY wrote:
klkitchens wrote:
Interesting...
Under Crew Movement:

During turns when no waves of attacking fighters appear, or after all fighters are driven off by either friendly fighter cover or other Bombers (by rolling a "No Attackers" result on Table 5-3), crew movements are made with no penalty. These safe turns are the only time crew movements may be made if the intercom system is out.

If crew movements are made in a zone where the Bomber is attacked, certain penalties accrue. The moving crew members may not fire any guns from either their old or new position, until the attacks (both initial and successive) of one wave of fighters have been resolved. Crew movements can be made within the same compartment with no penalty. For example, the Waist Gunners can switch guns during an attack. The navigator or bombardier may switch freely between the nose gun and either cheek gun or between cheek guns.

There is no penalty for moving a wounded crewman.


So that seems to indicate that they can at the start of the attack, but cannot fire old or new until the first wave is over.

So if they fired first wave, they cannot move until the next zone/turn.


Not quite the way I would read it. The underlined section of the second paragraph refers to waves, and essentially says they can't participate until one wave has been completely resolved

If a crewmember fires at the first wave, they would have to "sit out" the second wave, regardless of how many runs the various fighters make. They could, however, then fire at the thrid wave -- if there is one, of course.

This interpretation seems to make sense as otherwise there would be no particular reason to make the distinction in the first paragraph.


Interesting. Yesterday the plain reading was

1. You're in a zone being attacked. You move at the start, then after one wave (the first wave) is complete, you could then attack.

Now today with different eyes and different condition, make it seem like you read it: you move before a wave and then can assume duties after THAT wave.

Definitely ambiguous.
 
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Michael Melen
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My take (for what it's worth) is that while under fire, the crew members would not know what was happening with the other members of the crew in compartments other than their own. They would know the plane had been hit, hear reactions to bullets/shrapnel, but they wouldn't know what exactly had happened or who had been hit.

Once the enemy action had subsided in that zone, there would be time to assess the damage. Crew movement could occur at that time.

I have been playing that the crew may move as the plane moves from one zone to the next. However, a crew member in the same compartment could move within that same compartment in between waves. That's the way that it makes sense to me.
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GB Paul
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I was hoping for a clarification in the current errata release. Unfortunately it was not there. Pending feedback from Steve, I will go with Mark's interpretation. I agree with Kevin as this is definitely ambiguous.

Thanks for the input.
 
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