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Subject: Why is my deck so small? rss

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Chris Lehrich

Massachusetts
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My son and I have been playing MK for a while now, off and on, and now we've added LL, which we love.

We're slowly getting better at the game, but I find myself mystified when I see descriptions of epic super-colossal battles and such, here on the forum and elsewhere. When I finish a game, I never have an especially large deck. In fact, it seems like the vast majority of the cards that appear in any given game just sit there, unused, on offer but not taken.

Now without going through an entire game step by step, which would be agony for everyone concerned, I realize there may be no way to help with this. But I'm asking anyway.

Here's how I see it.

First Round, you can usually gain 1 level, maybe 2 if you're lucky. You can usually gain 2-3 cards, be they Units, Advanced Actions, Artifacts, or Spells.

Second Round, much the same.

In the second full Day/Night cycle (Rounds 3-4), you should be able to increase the card intake a bit, but by this point you are also gearing up for things like fighting Volkare or besieging a city, which cuts back down on how many cards you can add. Units added replace disbanded units, for example.

Third full cycle, you're finishing up, and you don't have time to waste gaining a pile of cards.

So the end result is that you've got about 10-12 cards or so over what you began with, of which probably ~3 are units and ~3 units have been disbanded, making a total deck of 21 plus units. Your hand limit is probably 6, and you can usually add 1 by some means or other, so you've got a hand of 7. You spend about 5 per turn, give or take.

That means that you end the game playing 4 turns in the final night. You have 3-4 units and 21-odd cards in your deck.

Does this sound at all right to you? It seems like other people are ending with WAY more cards, vast selections of ranged and siege attacks, and so on. That's never happened to us -- not once. And we've tried a bunch of different strategies.

Any guesses as to what (if anything) we're doing wrong?
 
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The Shader
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3 units and 3 units disbanded? that seems like pretty high turnover, at least how I play
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Chris Lehrich

Massachusetts
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therealtheshader wrote:
3 units and 3 units disbanded? that seems like pretty high turnover, at least how I play

I often find that "burning" wounded units is the most efficient system, because it allows you to use the unit slot twice in a given Round. Say you trash a site (Keep, Mage Tower, City), and you brought 2 units to the fight. Let the units eat wounds. Next turn, recruit at the site, and replace the wounded units with the new ones.
 
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Ben Kyo
Japan
Osaka
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Forward 1, Forward 2, Forward 3... siege attack 5?
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As you point out, you don't usually add a huge quantity of cards to your deck, but the spells, artifacts, and especially crystals/mana sources make a huge difference.

Elite units are a big deal too.

Sparing Power can make for a huge finale.

...


Three disbanded units is pretty high, not what I'd call an average.

That's all I've got right now.
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David desJardins
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chrislehrich wrote:
So the end result is that you've got about 10-12 cards or so over what you began with, of which probably ~3 are units and ~3 units have been disbanded, making a total deck of 21 plus units.


21 cards by the end of the game seems crazy low. You start with 16 cards and you're usually going to get 4 AAs just from level up (if not 5). So that means 0-1 spells, artifacts, and bonus AAs combined? I would have expected 3-4 spells, 1-3 artifacts, and 0-2 bonus AAs, for a typical deck of 26-28 cards (plus Wounds, if any).

And Full Conquest should often end in round 4, sometimes round 5.
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Chris Lehrich

Massachusetts
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DaviddesJ wrote:
chrislehrich wrote:
So the end result is that you've got about 10-12 cards or so over what you began with, of which probably ~3 are units and ~3 units have been disbanded, making a total deck of 21 plus units.


21 cards by the end of the game seems crazy low. You start with 16 cards and you're usually going to get 4 AAs just from level up (if not 5). So that means 0-1 spells, artifacts, and bonus AAs combined? I would have expected 3-4 spells, 1-3 artifacts, and 0-2 bonus AAs, for a typical deck of 26-28 cards (plus Wounds, if any).

And Full Conquest should often end in round 4, sometimes round 5.

Okay, so there is definitely something amiss here. I don't think we've ever ended with a hand that big -- maybe once.

As to ending in Round 4, that's Blitz, no? Standard full game is 3 days, 3 nights, for 6 Rounds. Not so?
 
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David desJardins
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chrislehrich wrote:
As to ending in Round 4, that's Blitz, no? Standard full game is 3 days, 3 nights, for 6 Rounds. Not so?


The standard game allows for up to 6 rounds, but ends when all cities are conquered. With 1 city per player, if you play with the standard level 4 cities, often each player can conquer a city by round 4 and that ends the game.

My guess would be that you're playing with the right rules but just not playing nearly as efficiently as more experienced players.
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HenningK
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I suppose that most of what you read concerns solo players. Playing solo, you get more done and level up a bit more. Still, you should have a few cards more, as DaviddesJ pointed out.

Regarding those epic super-colossal battles: In day 3 or night 3, your hand size is at least 6, often 7. Add a keep nearby, or plundering a village, or the Motivation skill, or maybe the Great Start tactics card, and it's not too unusual to have a 9 or even 10 card hand. Add a bunch of crystals and 3-4 units (preferrably about 2 elite ones), and you can annihilate quite a lot. It won't happen every game, but it's doable.

Also, keep in mind that some of the most absurd battle stories against large armies mainly come from one or two effects that are totally bonkers, like the Altem Mages' ability to turn everything into siege attack, or Earthquake's reduction of all enemies' armor. If you can combine some of these powerful effects, it can sometimes feel like cheating.
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Nigel Prebble
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chrislehrich wrote:
I never have an especially large deck.


Ah deck envy, ‘tiss a terrible thing
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Joshua Hammer
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The average deck size isn't as big as you would think, so I wouldn't worry about it.
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RyuSora
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I agree with others. By the round 5-6 you should have around 28-30 cards in your deck. But the game is more than just your deck, units are basically free cards away from your hand, crystals are an extremely important element, your skills are also pretty powerful. And you should look for ways to increase your hand size (steal a village, prep, sparing power, keeps, and some cards also increase hand size.) you probably playing the rules corretcly, just not playing effecientily enough my friend.
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The Shader
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kshathra wrote:
The average deck size isn't as big as you would think, so I wouldn't worry about it.


It's not how big your deck is, but how you use it.

in all seriousness though, if you are spending influence to replace wounded units, that is influence that could be used to buy spells or actions. I generally don't buy a unit unless it is useful to me, and I usually heal them until late game when I start swapping out guys to elite units.
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Chris Lehrich

Massachusetts
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We played another good game today. I tried to slow down a bit.

I find that I tend to look at everything available to me in a given moment, and then make a choice: can I do some big blazing thing that will net me a lot, or can't I? If so, I do it, and to heck with the consequences -- meaning, once or twice a Round, I blow pretty much every card, unit, mana bit, skill, and whatever, all in one go. If I can't do that, I get very miserly and irritable about how I can't get anywhere or do anything without using cards and mana that I want to save up for something big.

On the one hand, I think this is going to serve me rather well when I crank Volkare and the scenario up toward the high levels. As it is, for example, we pasted him by the end of Night 2 (Round 4).

On the other hand, I suspect it will help if I start thinking a little more calmly about what's possible using just 1-2 cards, and letting the time roll by. I tend to get worried when we're halfway through the 6 Rounds: I feel like we should be chipping away at Volkare, but in this game, it seems like it's better to wait as long as possible, since he doesn't really get significantly stronger over the course of the game.

Anyway, this time I ended with 26 cards, 4 units, 2 wounds, which after 4 Rounds and killing Volkare in a 2-person cooperative game isn't half bad, I think. Maybe we're getting the hang of it....
 
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Steve Kaylor
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chrislehrich wrote:
Why is my deck so small?


Because it's cold out?

ok, so really i'd have to say as a fan of deck builder games, i love the small decks. it's a really nice way of keeping powerful.
 
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