Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
41 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Sword & Sorcery» Forums » Rules

Subject: Blue gremlin spines + powers rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Craig Bocketti
United States
Clifton Park
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Does the spine reaction also use the power that the gremlin has if it states it's used during an attack?

Blue Gremlin takes 1HP

Reaction ability: 2 hits + 2 for dom/Banding + -1 armor(power)?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Skaak
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am unsure if the Supremacy/Domination bonus applies to Spines. I've been playing that it only affects weapon attacks, but looking at the rules that's not actually specified anywhere.

The other modifiers you mentioned do not affect a Spines reaction:

* Banding explicitly states that it increases attack for Claws attacks
* -1 Armor is explicitly part of the Claws attack (it's an ability that only triggers when the Gremlin attacks with Claws, because it's in that section of the card)
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
No, it's just 2 hits. It's not an attack so doesn't get all those modifications.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vasilis
Greece
Heraklion Crete
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Domination counts for Spines as normal. Rulebook page 34 under Supremacy: All attacks performed by a faction etc.

Spines is indeed an attack
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terry Simo
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr Skeletor wrote:
No, it's just 2 hits. It's not an attack so doesn't get all those modifications.


Does it get reduced to 1 hit if Night is in effect and the Night rules are -1 attack - aka Scenario 1.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Skaak
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
T-Mo wrote:
Does it get reduced to 1 hit if Night is in effect and the Night rules are -1 attack - aka Scenario 1.


The Night damage reduction only applies to heroes, if memory serves.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve O'Grady
United States
Jacksonville
Alabama
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spines is not an attack, but a defensive reaction to an attack by the heroes, so there is no (Gremlin) Dominance in a reaction. However, because it causes hit points, Heroes can defend against the hit points coming from a spine reaction.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rezard Vareth
United States
flag msg tools
GeekDadGamer wrote:
Spines is not an attack, but a defensive reaction to an attack by the heroes, so there is no (Gremlin) Dominance in a reaction. However, because it causes hit points, Heroes can defend against the hit points coming from a spine reaction.
Where did you get this? Spines specifically uses the word "attack" in its rules language.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
I'm confused now. Someone summon Simone!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rezard Vareth
United States
flag msg tools
Mr Skeletor wrote:
I'm confused now. Someone summon Simone!
Summon Onamor!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve O'Grady
United States
Jacksonville
Alabama
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RezardVareth wrote:
GeekDadGamer wrote:
Spines is not an attack, but a defensive reaction to an attack by the heroes, so there is no (Gremlin) Dominance in a reaction. However, because it causes hit points, Heroes can defend against the hit points coming from a spine reaction.
Where did you get this? Spines specifically uses the word "attack" in its rules language.


But Spines is represented with a shield...a defensive reaction to an attack. It is not a combat action, and as such, is not a true attack. The Gremlins attack in their own phase, not in the heroes phase.

Think of it like this...you attack a porcupine, you lunge at it during your attack, doing damage to it, but you get pricked several times during the process. Same thing with the Gremlins.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rezard Vareth
United States
flag msg tools
GeekDadGamer wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
GeekDadGamer wrote:
Spines is not an attack, but a defensive reaction to an attack by the heroes, so there is no (Gremlin) Dominance in a reaction. However, because it causes hit points, Heroes can defend against the hit points coming from a spine reaction.
Where did you get this? Spines specifically uses the word "attack" in its rules language.


But Spines is represented with a shield...a defensive reaction to an attack. It is not a combat action, and as such, is not a true attack. The Gremlins attack in their own phase, not in the heroes phase.

Think of it like this...you attack a porcupine, you lunge at it during your attack, doing damage to it, but you get pricked several times during the process. Same thing with the Gremlins.
Yeah but you just made all of this up. This is nowhere in the rules.

The blue shield icon just means the power can be used in response to something outside of your turn. Blue shield effects can be used offensively (e.g., lawful Thorgar).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve O'Grady
United States
Jacksonville
Alabama
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RezardVareth wrote:
GeekDadGamer wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
GeekDadGamer wrote:
Spines is not an attack, but a defensive reaction to an attack by the heroes, so there is no (Gremlin) Dominance in a reaction. However, because it causes hit points, Heroes can defend against the hit points coming from a spine reaction.
Where did you get this? Spines specifically uses the word "attack" in its rules language.


But Spines is represented with a shield...a defensive reaction to an attack. It is not a combat action, and as such, is not a true attack. The Gremlins attack in their own phase, not in the heroes phase.

Think of it like this...you attack a porcupine, you lunge at it during your attack, doing damage to it, but you get pricked several times during the process. Same thing with the Gremlins.
Yeah but you just made all of this up. This is nowhere in the rules.

The blue shield icon just means the power can be used in response to something outside of your turn. Blue shield effects can be used offensively (e.g., lawful Thorgar).


Yes, exactly what it means. Blue Shield is used IN RESPONSE to my heroes attack. The Gremlins cannot attack with the Blue Shield on their turn. It has to be hit first by a heroes attack. Then it has a response to that attack. 2 hits to the attacking hero. Not an attack...it is not their turn. It is just two hits.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rezard Vareth
United States
flag msg tools
GeekDadGamer wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
GeekDadGamer wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
GeekDadGamer wrote:
Spines is not an attack, but a defensive reaction to an attack by the heroes, so there is no (Gremlin) Dominance in a reaction. However, because it causes hit points, Heroes can defend against the hit points coming from a spine reaction.
Where did you get this? Spines specifically uses the word "attack" in its rules language.


But Spines is represented with a shield...a defensive reaction to an attack. It is not a combat action, and as such, is not a true attack. The Gremlins attack in their own phase, not in the heroes phase.

Think of it like this...you attack a porcupine, you lunge at it during your attack, doing damage to it, but you get pricked several times during the process. Same thing with the Gremlins.
Yeah but you just made all of this up. This is nowhere in the rules.

The blue shield icon just means the power can be used in response to something outside of your turn. Blue shield effects can be used offensively (e.g., lawful Thorgar).


Yes, exactly what it means. Blue Shield is used IN RESPONSE to my heroes attack. The Gremlins cannot attack with the Blue Shield on their turn. It has to be hit first by a heroes attack. Then it has a response to that attack. 2 hits to the attacking hero. Not an attack...it is not their turn. It is just two hits.
What are you saying "yes" to? There was no question to you in my response.

You are making things up based on how you think the game world works. That's fine, but there are those of us who want to understand how Simone intended the game to be played.

If we're talking plain English, then a counter attack is one logical and obvious way to "respond" to an attack. A counter attack is by definition also an attack.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve O'Grady
United States
Jacksonville
Alabama
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is no counter attack. Did you roll dice for them? You can't. It's not their turn.

We will just have agree to to disagree, and leave it at that. Some posters on this thread have already said what I said, before I said it, so clearly I am not the only one who interprets this issue this way.

The Red Attack symbols on the Monster card are taken into consideration only if the situation warrants it, and occur during the attack phase of the Enemy Turn. The Blue Shield symbols are taken into consideration only if the situation warrants it when the monsters are attacked by heroes during the Heroes turn. If the situation is warranted during the hero's attack, the Blue Shield effect kicks in. It is not an attack because it is not their turn and the corresponding symbols are Not Red Attack symbols. It is simply 2 hits to the hero, which because they are hits, they can defend against.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rezard Vareth
United States
flag msg tools
GeekDadGamer wrote:
There is no counter attack. Did you roll dice for them? You can't. It's not their turn.

We will just have agree to to disagree, and leave it at that. Some posters on this thread have already said what I said, before I said it, so clearly I am not the only one who interprets this issue this way.

The Red Attack symbols on the Monster card are taken into consideration only if the situation warrants it, and occur during the attack phase of the Enemy Turn. The Blue Shield symbols are taken into consideration only if the situation warrants it when the monsters are attacked by heroes during the Heroes turn. If the situation is warranted during the hero's attack, the Blue Shield effect kicks in. It is not an attack because it is not their turn and the corresponding symbols are Not Red Attack symbols. It is simply 2 hits to the hero, which because they are hits, they can defend against.
In changing tack, you just made up a bunch of crap that's not in the rules, including, apparently:
(1) the idea that a red fist is needed for an attack to occur and
(2) the idea that dice need to be rolled.

Is a blue raider's Readiness II reaction attack an "attack"? That is a purple passive symbol and not a red fist. Is the raider's Knife attack not an "attack" because no dice need to be rolled and they are just attacking with 2H and poison?

On gremlin spines, the enemy scroll specifically says "attack with 2H". I'm not sure how you get around this without an errata, no matter how many muppets you get to agree with you.

While we're applying real world logic to game rules, do you also deny LOS for any enemies that are blinded? Because that is 100% logical but also clearly not how the rules are written.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve O'Grady
United States
Jacksonville
Alabama
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RezardVareth wrote:
GeekDadGamer wrote:
There is no counter attack. Did you roll dice for them? You can't. It's not their turn.

We will just have agree to to disagree, and leave it at that. Some posters on this thread have already said what I said, before I said it, so clearly I am not the only one who interprets this issue this way.

The Red Attack symbols on the Monster card are taken into consideration only if the situation warrants it, and occur during the attack phase of the Enemy Turn. The Blue Shield symbols are taken into consideration only if the situation warrants it when the monsters are attacked by heroes during the Heroes turn. If the situation is warranted during the hero's attack, the Blue Shield effect kicks in. It is not an attack because it is not their turn and the corresponding symbols are Not Red Attack symbols. It is simply 2 hits to the hero, which because they are hits, they can defend against.
In changing tack, you just made up a bunch of crap that's not in the rules, including apparently the idea that a red fist is needed for an attack to occur or the idea that dice need to be rolled. Is a blue raider's Readiness II reaction attack an "attack"? That is a purple passive symbol and not a red fist. Is the raider's Knife attack not an "attack" because no dice need to be rolled and they are just attacking with 2H and poison?

On gremlin spines, the enemy scroll specifically says "attack with 2H". I'm not sure how you get around this without an errata, no matter how many muppets you get to agree with you.


Whoa...settle down. This is not personal. I am not sure the other posters appreciate being described by you as muppets.

On a final note, I will just say, it was not taught to us by Ares at the Origins demo the way you describe.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rezard Vareth
United States
flag msg tools
GeekDadGamer wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
GeekDadGamer wrote:
There is no counter attack. Did you roll dice for them? You can't. It's not their turn.

We will just have agree to to disagree, and leave it at that. Some posters on this thread have already said what I said, before I said it, so clearly I am not the only one who interprets this issue this way.

The Red Attack symbols on the Monster card are taken into consideration only if the situation warrants it, and occur during the attack phase of the Enemy Turn. The Blue Shield symbols are taken into consideration only if the situation warrants it when the monsters are attacked by heroes during the Heroes turn. If the situation is warranted during the hero's attack, the Blue Shield effect kicks in. It is not an attack because it is not their turn and the corresponding symbols are Not Red Attack symbols. It is simply 2 hits to the hero, which because they are hits, they can defend against.
In changing tack, you just made up a bunch of crap that's not in the rules, including apparently the idea that a red fist is needed for an attack to occur or the idea that dice need to be rolled. Is a blue raider's Readiness II reaction attack an "attack"? That is a purple passive symbol and not a red fist. Is the raider's Knife attack not an "attack" because no dice need to be rolled and they are just attacking with 2H and poison?

On gremlin spines, the enemy scroll specifically says "attack with 2H". I'm not sure how you get around this without an errata, no matter how many muppets you get to agree with you.


Whoa...settle down. This is not personal. I am not sure the other posters appreciate being described by you as muppets.

On a final note, I will just say, it was not taught to us by Ares at the Origins demo they way you describe.
That last bit is actually helpful. I'd still like to know Simone's opinion on this.

On your first point, I don't see anyone else who still takes your position. Hence, "muppets". If that is offensive, you can substitute some other set of imaginary characters.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Cantor
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GeekDadGamer wrote:

On a final note, I will just say, it was not taught to us by Ares at the Origins demo they way you describe.


While I do happen to disagree with you on this, I will independently say that having demoed it there also but after reading the rules myself at home, they got more rules wrong than right in our session, so that actually undermines your case.

I had to correct them during the demo on a good number of rules and eventually just gave up in the interest of leaving them be.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dieter van Loon
Belgium
flag msg tools
mbmb
Page 34 of the rulebook clearly states (note at top right corner):
Any item or power that deals [HIT] against a target is considered an attack

The spines reaction power states: attack all heroes with 2 [HIT].

In my opinion this makes it clear that this is considered an attack (it literally says so on the power and it deals [HIT] symbols).
As this is an attack, modifiers should apply. You just don't roll any dice but still follow all the steps of a regular attack.

Page 31 also mentions: The S&S Combat System is used to manage any attack performed.... This means that a reaction power which deals [HIT] symbols (and thus considered an attack), should follow the Combat System.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pink Rose
United States
Milwaukie
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, let's suppose it's an attack. Do spines stack with frenzy?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rezard Vareth
United States
flag msg tools
Which one is frenzy? Is that the horde power?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pink Rose
United States
Milwaukie
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's an enemy power.
If wounded: all attacks performed by this enemy inflict critical.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rezard Vareth
United States
flag msg tools
OregonPinkRose wrote:
It's an enemy power.
If wounded: all attacks performed by this enemy inflict critical.
Ah, right. As written, yes. Other places make distinctions between attacks and weapon attacks, or even mainhand/offhand weapon attacks. Where there is no such distinction, as here, it stands to reason that it applies to all attacks.

But this seems a likely errata candidate. Simone has corrected power cards before.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dieter van Loon
Belgium
flag msg tools
mbmb
It is indeed possible that this was not the intention (domination, horde, other modifiers) for reaction abilities like Spines. But then we'd need an official errata.

Or it could be that this was intentional and the game is actually harder than the way some people are playing it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.