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Subject: I think we need new terms to cover just what Gloomhaven is. rss

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Campaign just isn't enough, legacy isn't valid.

I propose 3 possibilities:

MegaCampaign, as it takes 50+ scenarios
Sessional, as it's a game played across many sessions
Progressive, as progress is slow rather than instant.

MegaCampaign and Sessional also cover Kingdom Death: Monster
Sessional and Progressive also cover Shadowrun: Crossfire(and thus Dragonfire)
Sessional, at least, also covers 7th Continent.

As newer and larger games continue to be developed and released, more defining terms invariably are needed to be able to label them quickly. I think calling Gloomhaven a Progressive game would be the most valid.
 
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Phil McDonald
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It never gets stale and whenever I'm playing anything else I'd sooner be playing Gloomhaven 90 hours and counting (and... breathe)
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Ben Martell
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Euro and RPG aren't useful terms either.

I think perhaps Legacy Worldbuilder or something along those lines... I think legacy does imply a large campaign style game with permanent changes, but we just hadn't seen it applied to a dungeon crawler yet, and of course it's light legacy in the sense that you aren't tearing up components.
 
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Kerstin
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It's a game, it's fun, that's enough relevant terms for me.
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Dean L
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Coventry
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I'm not sure what makes "campaign" insufficient?

It's a really, really big one for sure but no bigger than a lot of RPG campaigns and a lot smaller than Campaign for North Africa.
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Daily Grind
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'gloomhaven' is the term! All future games of this ilk shall be known as 'gloomhavenites'. So decreeith a random stranger on the internet!

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Dave Thomas
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I'll go with "Gloomy"

Sufficiently divorced from the original title to be its own thing yet has obvious references and honours the first.

I can see Rahdo right now saying "that's far more Gloomy than Ameri-trash..."
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N F
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Greenwood
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TAG SCD

Tactical Adventure Game... with... Slow Character Development


I think Legacy might still be a good name for it. That term just got coined recently and maybe hasn't reached it's full definition yet? I don't think a game has to work exactly like Pandemic Legacy to be called a Legacy game.


What about a PCD Game? Player Chosen Development. That pretty accurately describes how the game and characters progress.
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Jason B
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It's a dungeon crawl. A DC with card driven combat, leveling, and a campaign tying together the scenarios. It is the best example of one, though.
 
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Dusty Craine
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In reference to other recent threads, I just beg you.. PLEASE don't call it a limited RPG. XD
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Trang VP
Australia
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BeardedOne wrote:
In reference to other recent threads, I just beg you.. PLEASE don't call it a limited RPG. XD


Well, of course not, RPGs are just an extremely limited version of Gloomhaven whistle
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David Tsang
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jasonbaz77 wrote:
It's a dungeon crawl. A DC with card driven combat, leveling, and a campaign tying together the scenarios. It is the best example of one, though.


Ahh, the ol' CDCDC.

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Adam Tucker
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da5idt wrote:
jasonbaz77 wrote:
It's a dungeon crawl. A DC with card driven combat, leveling, and a campaign tying together the scenarios. It is the best example of one, though.


Ahh, the ol' CDCDC.

CDCDC = Card Driven Combat Dungeon Crawl ?
So Gloomhaven and Perdition's Mouth: Abyssal Rift are the two games in that category, correct?
But Perdition's Mouth: Abyssal Rift has multiple mini-campaigns, while Gloomhaven has an extended multi-character (including character retirement) campaign.
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Tom Steynen
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For me a legacy game is a game where you make permanent changes to the components so Gloomhaven qualifies. Admittedly it is less so than e.g. Pandemic Legacy but if that bothers you just call it a dungeon crawler 'with legacy elements'.

No reason to start defining entire new genres for this. Compare it with Mage Knight which has 'deck building elements' but is not really a deck builder (or if you think Mage Knight is a true deck builder, I'm sure there are other examples).
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Daniel Heidenreich

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Campaign is fine. We call rpg campaigns "campaigns" and some people have been playing them for 20 years, so I don't think length needs to be a factor.
 
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Wes Holland

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Tekar wrote:
For me a legacy game is a game where you make permanent changes to the components so Gloomhaven qualifies. Admittedly it is less so than e.g. Pandemic Legacy but if that bothers you just call it a dungeon crawler 'with legacy elements'.

No reason to start defining entire new genres for this. Compare it with Mage Knight which has 'deck building elements' but is not really a deck builder (or if you think Mage Knight is a true deck builder, I'm sure there are other examples).


Interestingly, while both GH and PL apply changes to their components, I feel the biggest thing for a Legacy game is that the *rules* change over the course of play.

Gloomhaven's rules don't change. (Other than some classes having different quirks or rules that others don't. Think Mindthief Augments for an example... Or Scoundrel's 'enemy adjacency'.)

If you'll notice, PL, Risk Legacy, and SeaFall all change components, yes, but that change includes Rules Changes.

Strictly speaking, there are two Rule Changes in Gloomhaven (that I know of so far.) One of which is non-spoiler, because it's in the rulebook: Enhancements. The other is a spoiler, and I'm pretty sure most people that have progressed in the campaign know what I'm talking about, since it's relatively easy to just stumble across in normal play. I won't mention it otherwise.

Certain vague hints lead me to believe there might be a third Rules Change unlock, but I'm not sure.
 
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