Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Founders of Gloomhaven» Forums » General

Subject: Puerto Rico killer? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Dave Sands
Canada
New Westminster
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just doing some research if this game is for me and recognized that the increased player dependency and interaction really sets it apart from other similar Euros. I have always really enjoyed Puerto Rico, 7 Wonders, Alien Frontiers, etc., but have found them difficult to get to the table with my group who prefer much more player interaction. Founders of Gloomhaven seems to scratch that itch. Is this a "traditional" Euro killer?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Mathias
United States
Hendersonville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thelegitsandman wrote:
Just doing some research if this game is for me and recognized that the increased player dependency and interaction really sets it apart from other similar Euros. I have always really enjoyed Puerto Rico, 7 Wonders, Alien Frontiers, etc., but have found them difficult to get to the table with my group who prefer much more player interaction. Founders of Gloomhaven seems to scratch that itch. Is this a "traditional" Euro killer?


Puerto Rico's script is its killer.

I don't think this game will fire any other game. And I certainly don't think it will kill traditional euros, maybe from a collection or two but not universally.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Parkin
United States
Stow
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
Push Cubes. Blow Stuff Up.
badge
MIND. BLOWN.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nothing can kill Puerto Rico.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Perhaps no game has killed any other game in the history of games. But people keep asking.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
François Mahieu
Belgium
Rhode-Saint-Genèse
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
Perhaps no game has killed any other game in the history of games. But people keep asking.


Indeed. Though I'm still waiting for another Agricola.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kilo Force
United States
Salt Lake City
Utah
flag msg tools
I play with Red
badge
I play with Red
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
poifpoif wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Perhaps no game has killed any other game in the history of games. But people keep asking.


Indeed. Though I'm still waiting for another Agricola.


You mean Caverna: The Cave Farmers? whistle
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gustav W
Sweden
Lund
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kiloforce wrote:
poifpoif wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Perhaps no game has killed any other game in the history of games. But people keep asking.


Indeed. Though I'm still waiting for another Agricola.


You mean Caverna: The Cave Farmers? whistle


If anything is a killer it was Caverna killing Agricola.

I own Agricola, I don't own Caverna. Still, I haven't played Agricola (and would say no to it if suggested) since Caverna came out.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Webbe wrote:
I own Agricola, I don't own Caverna. Still, I haven't played Agricola (and would say no to it if suggested) since Caverna came out.


Yet they are wildly different, about as different as two games can be. Agricola is driven by random card draws and Caverna has none of that at all. This is why this whole concept of games "killing" games never seems to make much sense. There may be some similarities (although in the case of Agricola and Caverna it's not easy to even find that many), but the differences are always going to be salient.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gustav W
Sweden
Lund
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
Webbe wrote:
I own Agricola, I don't own Caverna. Still, I haven't played Agricola (and would say no to it if suggested) since Caverna came out.


Yet they are wildly different, about as different as two games can be. Agricola is driven by random card draws and Caverna has none of that at all. This is why this whole concept of games "killing" games never seems to make much sense. There may be some similarities (although in the case of Agricola and Caverna it's not easy to even find that many), but the differences are always going to be salient.

Wildy different...

Nope, they are extremely similar.

But you are correct that is just a personal killer, not a general killer.
I agree that there are not game killers in general.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derry Salewski
United States
Augusta
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
I'm only happy when it rains...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
Webbe wrote:
I own Agricola, I don't own Caverna. Still, I haven't played Agricola (and would say no to it if suggested) since Caverna came out.


Yet they are wildly different, about as different as two games can be. Agricola is driven by random card draws and Caverna has none of that at all. This is why this whole concept of games "killing" games never seems to make much sense. There may be some similarities (although in the case of Agricola and Caverna it's not easy to even find that many), but the differences are always going to be salient.


A) I know you know what figurative language is.

B) Race for the galaxy is a serial murderer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
scifiantihero wrote:
A) I know you know what figurative language is.


A complicated way of saying "wrong"?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mitch Lavender
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
flag msg tools
Klaatu barada nikto.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From what I've seen of play-thru videos, there is extremely LITTLE interaction on Founders. It's a pure Euro and I don't think it kills anything.

#coexist
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Bowie
United Kingdom
Crewe
Cheshire
flag msg tools
mb
Race for the Galaxy already murdered Puerto Rico. I don't think Founders is terribly similar. PR lacks the spatial aspect and shared incentives, which is Founder's defining feature. The closest relation is the Follow actions, but that's a pretty small similarity.

(And I suppose they're both about building, but that's a thematic similarity more than anything, as they're executed in completely different ways).

DaviddesJ wrote:
This is why this whole concept of games "killing" games never seems to make much sense. There may be some similarities (although in the case of Agricola and Caverna it's not easy to even find that many), but the differences are always going to be salient.


It's just a shorthand way of saying "these games do similar things, but I preferred this one, so I kept it and got rid of the other".

mitchlav wrote:
From what I've seen of play-thru videos, there is extremely LITTLE interaction on Founders. It's a pure Euro and I don't think it kills anything.


Uhh... it's definitely not negative interaction, but the whole game's based around sharing resources, outbidding each other on buildings, and gaining benefits from your opponent's moves. Agricola is low interaction, this is much more like classic Euros or a Splotter game in execution.

Though I agree with your sentiment, Founders is like a mix of 5-6 different games if anything. It's its own unique beast.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
C3Gaming wrote:
It's just a shorthand way of saying "these games do similar things, but I preferred this one, so I kept it and got rid of the other".


I thought it was a way of saying that other did that, too. Anyway, it still doesn't make much sense to get rid of a game you like just because you have a different, similar game you like better. What if everyone else wants to play the other game?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr Frigof
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DaviddesJ wrote:
C3Gaming wrote:
It's just a shorthand way of saying "these games do similar things, but I preferred this one, so I kept it and got rid of the other".


I thought it was a way of saying that other did that, too. Anyway, it still doesn't make much sense to get rid of a game you like just because you have a different, similar game you like better. What if everyone else wants to play the other game?


What if you try replacing the 'I' in the sentence you quoted by 'our group' ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
frigof wrote:
What if you try replacing the 'I' in the sentence you quoted by 'our group' ?


If you've got 8 people you regularly play with and all 8 uniformly prefer A to B then your friends are a lot more consistent and alike than my friends.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Emeryville
California
flag msg tools
badge
Sometimes life is scary and dark. That is why we must find the light. -BMO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't played Brass, but it seems like there are similarities between Brass and Founders of Gloomhaven?

The obvious exception is that Brass isn't a tile laying game...that is, the networks are more static.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wes Holland

North Carolina
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't quite think it's a Puerto Rico killer... The tile-laying and city-building aspects are different from PR. The role selection and everyone following *is* similar, but everyone gets to select a role, and can be the same role, unlike PR.

Also: PR is only scripted in the first two rounds. After that, the game plays out differently.

Further: Caverna and Agricola only differ in: Agricola has unique 'role' cards, Caverna has an Adventuring aspect to it. Otherwise they're extremely similar, and by vast majority contain similar aspects. Once Caverna came out, I've never wanted to play Agricola. It is the quintessential Killer Game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Sands
Canada
New Westminster
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess in my original post I was referring to the fact that it is a much more interactive Euro that Puerto Rico with similar mechanisms. A lot of guys in my gaming group don't gravitate to Euros because of the lack of player interaction. I, myself like Euros just as much as other non-euro games but the lack of interaction (with Euros) does get to me at times. I see this game scratching the same itch as PR in terms of action/minor action selections but with a greater dependency on other players - semi cooperative. Although I love the elegance of PR I worry about its scripted nature and it's popularity as Founders of Gloomhaven comes into being.

Thanks for everyone's engagement in the conversation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thelegitsandman wrote:
I guess in my original post I was referring to the fact that it is a much more interactive Euro that Puerto Rico with similar mechanisms.


In that case, it wouldn't be a "killer" because some people want less interactive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
HenningK
Germany
Berlin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm always confused when people say that Puerto Rico has low player interaction. In Puerto Rico, the best move is often not the one that benefits you most, but the one that benefits the others least. You really need to keep a very close eye on what your opponents do.

From what I saw of Founders of Gloomhaven, I don't think it really scratches the same itch as Puerto Rico, but I can see some people liking it better.

Oh, and Agricola and Caverna are a good example of games that have almost identical mechanics yet feel very different. Agricola is much more tense and stressful while Caverna is much more relaxed and less punishing. Agricola's replayability comes from the randomly drawn cards, while Caverna's from... uh... trying out every combination of rooms I guess?
(I *vastly* prefer Agricola, by the way.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.