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Subject: Chicken Promo Balance rss

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Luke Muench
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For those of you who have already received their copies of the Champs expansions, one of the promos that comes with the Kickstarter edition is a new public longship that is... a chicken.

This mystic chicken, if fed 2 food and a reroll token, allows you to take up to 6 warriors to your overseas destination without feeding those warriors and skipping the unknown travel card.

Obviously, being the new thing on the block and a freakin' chicken, this public boat was a popular commodity amongst those who have played with me, but my concern is that it isn't entirely balanced. Assuming that you use this to defeat a monster each round, you are almost guaranteed to get a reroll token from it, meaning that the resource that needs to be managed is food, which, depending on where you're taking those warriors, means you'll need a lot less food to devote those warriors to that fight.

That being said, here's the biggest argument for the fact that is IS balanced; one of the most strategic and pressing decisions a player has is pushing their luck, spreading their forces thin, and fighting as many creatures on a turn as possible. This may mean that it would in fact be more expensive to send your warriors via chicken than it would taking the free longship or using a ship of your own.

Thoughts on this?
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It does seem strong, however having to have all the resources when you select the mighty chicken is quite a big difference then loading the ship up with food.

I tend to always send at least +1 food to any battle (unless I know the journey card), so I am going to spend at least 2 food, which I dont necessarily have when I assign a worker to the ship, so it doesn't seem to unbalanced, understanding that you also are losing 2 points doing

But lets see how it seems after a few games

Tbh I am more concerned with the fact that there are now 3 public ships + the hill creatures, seems like the competition for fighting spots will go down
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Ethan Williams
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I don't feel that the chicken make the game unbalanced, though I've only played with the expansions once. My dad and I played by ourselves. My dad kept getting and using the chicken and kept defeating the monsters with the most points. But out of his 8 dice, he would put an average of 5 dice in, which leaves him with 3 and that made it hard to defeat other monsters, while I was able to spread my forces out. By the end of the game I waxed my dad and we both can't wait to play.
 
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I haven't recieved my copy yet, but someone posted a picture of all the components in the box


From what I can see (far right) the chicken has a capacity of 4, and a cost of 2 food and a horn, a cost that is usually associated with a private ship not a public one.
It also does not give victory points, so you don't get that benefit of building a ship.
I can't read the text but I will trust you about the ability which still makes it worth buying.
But I don't think it is OP or breaks the game.

My concern about 3 public ships has dissipated and now I am back waiting to get my copy.
 
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Jacob Hayes
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The capacity is 6 on the chicken. It is best used to sail farther away after some coins have collected onto a monster there. By that time in the game you shoulder also already have a couple of extra food to spare and a favor token so it ends up being worth it.
 
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David Christopher
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I think if Gullinkambi were a private ship I might consider him OP, simply because only one player could take advantage of it. Because a public ship means he's out there for anyone to use. There's plenty of other ways to mitigate the journey cards that I don't feel this ship is too powerful.
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Swaygodeus wrote:
I think if Gullinkambi were a private ship I might consider him OP, simply because only one player could take advantage of it. Because a public ship means he's out there for anyone to use. There's plenty of other ways to mitigate the journey cards that I don't feel this ship is too powerful.


Can someone post a picture of it please?
cause from the picture in the unboxing picture i posted it sure looks like a private ship.
it also looks like it has a capacity of 4.
unless there is a backside to the ship
 
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Jacob Hayes
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Not broken
I just played a 4 player game last night. One player selected the chicken 3-4 times in the game to go across the sea. He won all of his battles there. However, he came in 2nd place.

So after 1 play, I didn't see anything game breaking from the chicken being spammed. He still had to gather the food and favor token.
 
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Hector Cornejo
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Does this help at all?

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Yes perfect, thanks!

I do feel like he is pretty strong, also the need to buy private ships will go down with a 3rd public ship being available.

The one thing balancing him is that you need the food early in the round to recruit him, but besides that he is awesome.

You pay early and with 6 carrying spots (just for dice) you can beat anyone! Not having to worry about journey cards, really I would attempt to use him EVERY sea voyage if I have the food early in the round

So maybe too strong, testing will show...


I do feel like they they made a graphic mistake, the cost for public ships should be up near the capacity, not where the cost of private ships are...but oh well
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Hector Cornejo
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He does seem pretty strong. I have to admit I have yet to read the Valhalla rules fully...do you do any travelling in Valhalla by land? I ask because in the beginning of the rules I posted here, it says he "lives in Valhalla", so it has me wondering whether he's only allowed to travel "in Valhalla".

It would make sense to me, since Chicken dont normally spend time on water....lol
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Hector Cornejo
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Finally read the rules last night for Valhalla, so no dice there. Oh well, seemed logical.
 
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David Christopher
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Surprised no one has complained that the card itself is squared compared to the rounded corners of the other ships whistle
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It isnt randomized, so does it really matter?

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Jerome Nowak
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Swaygodeus wrote:
Surprised no one has complained that the card itself is squared compared to the rounded corners of the other ships whistle


I have to myself.

At this point, Im just glad to have the game. But the QC of it all leaves much to be desired.
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TFJ383 wrote:
Thoughts on this?


I think the chicken is terrible.

By itself, it's balanced. The cost matches the benefit you get of skipping a journey card of mysterious value. (You might be paying to skip an All Quiet, it's a gamble.) After all, a reroll is 2 points.

The problem I saw is that a third public longship in the game undercut much of the reason to buy private ships. If three spots get grabbed with public ships and you bought a private ship you'd better hurry or it's wasted. Seems most players thought they'd be wasted and just favored the public ships, which is self-reinforcing.

IMHO, the chicken replacing a ship would have been more interesting than just adding one. Even if it replaced a private ship so there weren't enough to go around, that'd raise the private ship demand back up a bit from the scarcity.
 
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Spaceknight wrote:
TFJ383 wrote:
Thoughts on this?


I think the chicken is terrible.

By itself, it's balanced. The cost matches the benefit you get of skipping a journey card of mysterious value. (You might be paying to skip an All Quiet, it's a gamble.) After all, a reroll is 2 points.

The problem I saw is that a third public longship in the game undercut much of the reason to buy private ships. If three spots get grabbed with public ships and you bought a private ship you'd better hurry or it's wasted. Seems most players thought they'd be wasted and just favored the public ships, which is self-reinforcing.

IMHO, the chicken replacing a ship would have been more interesting than just adding one. Even if it replaced a private ship so there weren't enough to go around, that'd raise the private ship demand back up a bit from the scarcity.


Do you think it would work as a private ship?
If so would you pay the price once to buy, or every time?
If it becomes private you would "waste" a turn to buy it, and 2 points, and never have to worry about food again

I had the same concern about it. 3 public ships for 4 spots is too much, especially when you have 5 other fighting locations

The problem with it replacing a public ship is that both public ships are so different and necessary.

Perhaps the easiest house rule is that only 2 public ships can be rented per round, 1 will always stay at the docks (or side of the board)
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jooice wrote:
Do you think it would work as a private ship?
If so would you pay the price once to buy, or every time?
If it becomes private you would "waste" a turn to buy it, and 2 points, and never have to worry about food again

I had the same concern about it. 3 public ships for 4 spots is too much, especially when you have 5 other fighting locations

The problem with it replacing a public ship is that both public ships are so different and necessary.

Perhaps the easiest house rule is that only 2 public ships can be rented per round, 1 will always stay at the docks (or side of the board)


I don't think it'd work as private. What I was saying was maybe with 4 players plus the chicken you play the 3-player total of private ships. (So drop the one marked for 4 players, I think that's a 6-pointer.)

Maybe you could replace a public ship and rotate them? Start the chicken off the board unavailable. At the end of round, set aside whichever public ship travels farther and bring in the waiting one. (and anyways I'm generally not a fan of "oh yeah this thing far off the side of the board that you have to remember is also available.")

That said, I wouldn't call any ship "necessary" when the village spots randomly swap in/out each game. It'd be just another setup difference from game to game.

A limit on only drafting 2 of them is a lot more elegant than any of that.
 
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Spaceknight wrote:

A limit on only drafting 2 of them is a lot more elegant than any of that.


Yeah thats how I felt the moment I wrote it down.

This is how I will treat it for sure
 
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Mike Forrey
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Swaygodeus wrote:
Surprised no one has complained that the card itself is squared compared to the rounded corners of the other ships whistle


I was a bit disappointed in this as well. However it's not the end of the world and maybe they will put out a replacement we can buy at some point.
 
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Catherine Wiener
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Super Chicken has been officially pulled from my Jarl box. It hangs out in my original box in eternal darkness with all the tokens I didn't punch out.

In all the games played with it, pretty much from Round 2 on, it was literally the first player just choosing that ship every time. Though the person utilizing it the most didn't necessarily win, I found the stupid chicken quite distracting and will no longer play with him. In my game group, if we're playing with someone else's copy and they play with Super Chicken, I won't play. I dislike it that much.

That being said, I totally get why it's cool and funny and why a lot of people like it and though I'm still on the side of it still being a little OP, it was more the distraction of just about everyone making their decisions around getting that stupid chicken that drove me to remove it from my game.

I'm a much happier gamer now. :)
 
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Sadgrad wrote:
Super Chicken has been officially pulled from my Jarl box. It hangs out in my original box in eternal darkness with all the tokens I didn't punch out.

In all the games played with it, pretty much from Round 2 on, it was literally the first player just choosing that ship every time. Though the person utilizing it the most didn't necessarily win, I found the stupid chicken quite distracting and will no longer play with him. In my game group, if we're playing with someone else's copy and they play with Super Chicken, I won't play. I dislike it that much.

That being said, I totally get why it's cool and funny and why a lot of people like it and though I'm still on the side of it still being a little OP, it was more the distraction of just about everyone making their decisions around getting that stupid chicken that drove me to remove it from my game.

I'm a much happier gamer now.


I bet there are a bunch of fans of the game that would love to buy it off you.

We have never had the problem you mention.
We house-ruled that only 2 public boats (including the chicken ship) can be taken to sea per round, and to be honest it is probably chosen first the least.
I think it is real cool, but to each his own.
 
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