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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: Overpowered and Ubiquitous Cards rss

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Philip Hartten
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My original post focused on creating a variant that would encourage more creative deckbuilding; I've since modified it to cut to the chase:

What individual cards/card combinations do you feel are overplayed? What cards do you get tired of seeing over and over again?









 
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Lee Broderick
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Re: Restricted List Variant
I'm not sure what this question is, perhaps you could rephrase it?

I'm pretty certain none of the cards you mention have the 'restricted' keyword.
 
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Philip Hartten
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Re: Restricted List Variant
cornishlee wrote:
I'm not sure what this question is, perhaps you could rephrase it?

I'm pretty certain none of the cards you mention have the 'restricted' keyword.


Edited. Somehow it slipped my mind that "restricted" is also a keyword in this game. Too many years of playing MTG I suppose.
 
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Dale Stephenson
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Re: Card Restriction List Variant
I'm not sure exactly what the list will accomplish. If you're the sort of player who doesn't enjoy "degenerate combos", no list seems necessary to avoid them.

However, if you don't mind them *except* that they show up too frequently, you can mitigate that by using only one core set (this covers most of the staples), and/or seriously enlarging the size of your deck. If you want variety at the expense of efficiency, make a 75 card deck instead of a 50 card deck. Lots of room for interesting cards that way....

You could also have a rule that only 1 copy of a unique card can be in your deck.
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Dale Stephenson
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Re: Card Restriction List Variant
If you want to specifically target combos, rather than having a long list of power cards to choose one from, probably better to have individual lines. For example

Pick only 1:
(Sneak Attack/core Gandalf)
(Steward of Gondor/Blood of Numenor/Gondorian Fire)
(Feint/Hama)
(TaBoromir/LoAragorn/Grima)

Pick only 2:
(SpGlorfindel/Light of Valinor/Asfaloth)
(Gandalf hero/Elrond hero/Vilya)

But I'm still not sure what having the list accomplishes. No one accidentally builds a Gandalf/Elrond/Vilya deck, after all.
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Dale Stephenson
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Re: Card Restriction List Variant
OK, I see I missed the point. You're building *quests* and are wishing to limit the decks going against you.

I still wouldn't do it -- quests that are easier for some deck designs than other are common, but decks that *make* me re-do my deck in order to win always kind of annoy me. Rather than encouraging creativity, I feel they are trying to straitjacket me into a particular build.
 
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Philip Hartten
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Re: Card Restriction List Variant
I suppose the simple solution to my question is just not to use overpowered combos or cards that show up all the time in deck building. Fair enough.

Let's rephrase things: what cards are the frequent overpowered "offenders" or what cards are just so ubiquitous that you get tired of seeing them played?
 
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Lee Broderick
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zz2282 wrote:
Let's rephrase things: what cards are the frequent overpowered "offenders" or what cards are just so ubiquitous that you get tired of seeing them played?


I think this is a really difficult question to answer for a co-operative game, and impossible for me to answer.

I only play solo - so if ever I was getting 'tired of seeing [a card] played' I'd just stop including it in my deck.

I like to construct thematic decks - so some of the stronger cards (like Steward of Gondor and Gandalf) often don't get a look-in.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful - it may very well be that I'm still not correctly understanding what you're asking but it sounds to me a little like you're trying to fix a problem that just doesn't exist.

zz2282 wrote:
I suppose the simple solution to my question is just not to use overpowered combos or cards that show up all the time in deck building. Fair enough.


Something else to bear in mind - this game hasn't seen the power-creep that is often associated with competitive LCg's and CCG's. Most of the most powerful cards are still to be found in the core set.
 
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Philip Hartten
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cornishlee wrote:

I think this is a really difficult question to answer for a co-operative game, and impossible for me to answer.

I only play solo - so if ever I was getting 'tired of seeing [a card] played' I'd just stop including it in my deck.

I like to construct thematic decks - so some of the stronger cards (like Steward of Gondor and Gandalf) often don't get a look-in.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful - it may very well be that I'm still not correctly understanding what you're asking but it sounds to me a little like you're trying to fix a problem that just doesn't exist.


I appreciate the response. I come from a competitive MTG background and design tournament decks to be brutal, efficient machines using the most powerful cards available all the time. I'm trying to fight that urge in my approach to this game. So for me this is a "problem", so to speak. Because I'm late to the party and card pool is large, I'm trying to get some feedback so I don't end up bringing something degenerate to the upcoming GENCON tournament.
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Dale Stephenson
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zz2282 wrote:

I appreciate the response. I come from a competitive MTG background and design tournament decks to be brutal, efficient machines using the most powerful cards available all the time. I'm trying to fight that urge in my approach to this game. So for me this is a "problem", so to speak. Because I'm late to the party and card pool is large, I'm trying to get some feedback so I don't end up bringing something degenerate to the upcoming GENCON tournament.


1) Gencon quests tend to be very tough -- I wouldn't worry overmuch about having an overpowered deck.

2) With that said, if you've put together a deck that trivializes most nightmare decks (they exist), I wouldn't recommend bringing it to Gencon -- if it works, it won't be enjoyable for the other players.

3) When you're playing pickup with other players, bear in mind that they may want to use your special overpowered cards. So whether you think Steward of Gondor is overpowered or not, chances are there is somebody else who really really wants to use it, and if your deck *requires* it to work, you'd better have a backup plan. Also be wary of using the Gandalf hero, as it conflicts with core Gandalf, by far the most common card in published decks.

When you're playing at home or with players you know the preferences, none of those factors really apply and it all becomes a question of what you (and/or your group) are comfortable with. If you worry that you'll make an uber-deck and stick with it despite not enjoying it, perhaps you could take away the "option" of doing so by imposing your own thematic limitations, or by randomly selecting heroes and trying to make that potluck work.
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Dudeman Blarg
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From the top of my head, the most overplayed/overused/overpowered cards are:

Steward of Gondor
A Test of Will
Spirit Glorfidel
(Honorable Mention: A Good Harvest)

I tend to netdeck a lot to save time (and because I'm horrible at deckbuilding) and the first thing I do is look for any of these cards, and if I do, I either sub them out or move on to the next deck. Sadly I do this more often than not. I'm just so bored of these cards so I try to avoid them when possible. Just wish the meta wasn't so stale.
 
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Joe
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A Test of Will would be useless if there weren't When Revealed effects... just stating the obvious, obviously!
 
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Dale Stephenson
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soullos wrote:
From the top of my head, the most overplayed/overused/overpowered cards are:

Steward of Gondor
A Test of Will
Spirit Glorfidel
(Honorable Mention: A Good Harvest)

I tend to netdeck a lot to save time (and because I'm horrible at deckbuilding) and the first thing I do is look for any of these cards, and if I do, I either sub them out or move on to the next deck. Sadly I do this more often than not. I'm just so bored of these cards so I try to avoid them when possible. Just wish the meta wasn't so stale.


A Test of Will is likely the most efficient and generally useful card in the game, well worth including 2-3 copies (depending on the number of cores owned) in any spirit deck. I don't know that it makes the meta "stale", since there are no decks at all that revolve around that card and it's 2-3 cards out of 50. It's a staple, and it further has no competitors in spirit.

When I analyzed 100 decks from cardgamedb at the beginning of 2016, I found that the most popular events from each sphere was as follows:

Leadership -- 59% had Sneak Attack
Lore -- 49% had Daeron's Runes
Spirit -- 75% had Test of Will; 62% had Galadhrim's Greeting
Tactics -- 56% had Feint

The most popular attachments:

Leadership -- 61% Steward of Gondor
Lore -- 49% Burning Brand
Spirit -- 58% Unexpected Courage
Tactics -- 44% Horn of Gondor (pre-errata)

The most popular ally:

core Gandalf -- 58% of all (non-Hero Gandalf) decks

Spirit Glorfindel was in 34% of the Spirit decks with cards from his pack or later, this put him slightly behind Galadriel (36%) and Arwen (38%). That was from a 50 deck sample (60/100 decks had at least one spirit hero, but ten had no cards from Foundation of Stone or later), but that means that out of 100 decks there were 83 that didn't use him -- it's wise to skip decks featuring a hero you're bored with, especially since a hero has vastly larger impact on the play of a deck then the presence of a few staple cards. But the "meta" uses a *wide* variety of heroes, so it's easy to avoid them.
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Dr Johnson
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zz2282 wrote:
I appreciate the response. I come from a competitive MTG background and design tournament decks to be brutal, efficient machines using the most powerful cards available all the time. I'm trying to fight that urge in my approach to this game. So for me this is a "problem", so to speak. Because I'm late to the party and card pool is large, I'm trying to get some feedback so I don't end up bringing something degenerate to the upcoming GENCON tournament.


This game is somewhat different Phillip, in my opinion anyway. Most people have go-to powerful decks, but much of the joy comes from putting thematic decks together and then testing them.

So for example, the way I play the game is to create a number of decks that last throughout each cycle and have a sideboard of staples I can add into each. Currently I'm playing through Nightmare Hunt for Gollum Cycle with:

- Gondor leadership deck
- Dunedain leadership deck
- Noldor deck
- Silvan deck
- Rohirrim deck
- Gondor Outlands deck
- Dwarf deck
- Ent / Hobbits deck

Of the decks above, Gondor-leadership, Dwarves and Gondor-Outlands are really powerful. The others are merely fairly powerful. In the past I've created others such as Lore-traps, Eagles, and all Tactics decks which haven't worked at all. Having said that, it's often surprising which decks do well or not against particular quests.

If it would help, I can list the cards in my sideboard for you, as they're all pretty powerful.
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