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Subject: Starting point rss

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Carlo Marinozzi
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I'm interested in ASL but I'm a little confused by the sheer number of items comprising the series.

Just to be clear: if I learn the three starter sets, I can play any module or it's simply a starting point?

Thanks for your time
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Tripp Ritter
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You won't know all of the rules, but you will have a grounding in them and can then better tackle the large full rules. The downside of the Starter Kits is that there is a sense of starting over with the full rules from Beyond Valor or Rising Sun(you will need at least one of these).

From my point of view, the best reason to get at least the first one is to see if you like the game at a low price. If you like the first game and want to save money go ahead with the other starter kits. If you really like it, then you can invest in the rulebook and a full module.
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Carlo Marinozzi
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Thanks, very fast answer indeed.

I used to like the base Squad Leader, but never bought the following games (too expensives back then...)

So the other way round would be to buy the complete ruleset and a starting module? Which one is the best, if I may bother you again?
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John Smales
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Carlo M. wrote:
I used to like the base Squad Leader, but never bought the following games (too expensives back then...)


I paid $30.00 for SQUAD LEADER around '94--a fortune for me at that time!
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Tripp Ritter
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Carlo M. wrote:


Thanks, very fast answer indeed.

I used to like the base Squad Leader, but never bought the following games (too expensives back then...)

So the other way round would be to buy the complete ruleset and a starting module? Which one is the best, if I may bother you again?


If you know you like tactical WW2 games, I would go ahead and get Beyond Valor (easier to find than Rising Sun) and the rules. The first few scenarios are infantry only and you can learn the game that way.

If you are not sure, get the Starter Kit. If you do end up going to the full game, you will have some extra counters with which to play!
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Carlo Marinozzi
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Rhand wrote:
Carlo M. wrote:
I used to like the base Squad Leader, but never bought the following games (too expensives back then...)


I paid $30.00 for SQUAD LEADER around '94--a fortune for me at that time!


Right? I remember that I saved for months to get the 33.000 Lire needed to buy Third Reich.
I got SL as a gift, however

Tripp wrote:
If you are not sure, get the Starter Kit. If you do end up going to the full game, you will have some extra counters with which to play!


You are probably right, that sounds a better plan, I'll go with the starter kit then!

Thanks!
 
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Daniel Takai
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Carlo M. wrote:


Thanks, very fast answer indeed.

I used to like the base Squad Leader, but never bought the following games (too expensives back then...)

So the other way round would be to buy the complete ruleset and a starting module? Which one is the best, if I may bother you again?


Beyond Valor has the German and Russian OOBs, it is pretty much always in print, so that's a good starting point.
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Eric Walters
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Consider the radical idea that Advanced Squad Leader Starter Kit is so good that you don't need to upgrade to "the Full Monty" that is ASL.

The three starter kits are good "programmed instruction" introduction to the system, but you could get either Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit Expansion Pack #1 and/or Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit Historical Module 1 – Decision at Elst without the other three and enjoy all that the system has to offer short of full ASL. But, I understand the "completist" urge...believe me, I do!
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Warren Smith
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takai wrote:
Beyond Valor has the German and Russian OOBs, it is pretty much always in print, so that's a good starting point.

I'm thinking I must be missing something, but ...

Aside from the Starter Kits, Beyond Valor is currently the ONLY other starting point for ASL. It's the only module that has the system counters you'll need for any game. (Again, aside from the Starter Kits.)
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Daniel Takai
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wsmithjr wrote:
Aside from the Starter Kits, Beyond Valor is currently the ONLY other starting point for ASL. It's the only module that has the system counters you'll need for any game. (Again, aside from the Starter Kits.)


Not necessarily. You can get the info counter sheets off ebay, also other modules have some info counters, like the Starter Kits. I suppose you can also make do with a printout...

But yes, Beyond Valor is the best starting point for ASL.

I'd also get the map pack, which contains all the geomorphic map boards. These are part of the modules that you buy, but are also strewn through various Action Packs, Winter Offensive Packs and so on. So getting the map pack will allow you to setup most scenarios that do not need overlays.

Regarding overlays, MMP will publish an Overlay Pack ... Monday, I think.
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ASLSK offers a good intro however it's FAR from what the full ASL system has to offer. Like - FAAAAARRRRRRR - REALLY REALLY FAR. Like OMG-are-you-kidding-me FAR. So be wary when folks say it's "short of full ASL".

FAR.

ASLSK is not a necessary step either. There are plenty of folks who learned ASL from ASL. I had to learn ASLSK (learn everything I need to drop) recently to bring some newbies up.

Good luck!!!

Rgds Jack
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Bruce Probst
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Carlo M. wrote:
Just to be clear: if I learn the three starter sets, I can play any module or it's simply a starting point?


You can become the world's greatest expert on ASLSK and it won't help you much playing any ASL scenario. The full ASL rules add a variety of concepts that ASLSK completely avoids. Snipers, concealment and infantry bypass movement are just three of many additional ASL rules that will guarantee that no ASLSK scenario will ever play like any ASL scenario.

I don't say that to discourage you from moving to ASL. I strongly encourage such a move. Full ASL is a much better game. ASLSK just gives you a small taste of what ASL is like.

As for modules: the minimum you need for ASL is the rulebook and Beyond Valor. After that you should probably get Yanks. All of these are currently in print and (apart from their price) are easily obtainable. Those products will keep you happily playing for a long, long time without ever buying anything else.

The reality though is that ASL products tend to become unavailable quickly, and other than the core modules they will not come back into print (ever). So if you want to stay up to date you need to buy things as they are released, or become accustomed to paying very high prices on the secondary markets. You should strongly consider buying the ASL Map Collection as it's the only easy way of obtaining the maps not otherwise included in the core modules. Scenario packs etc. are never "essential" but are usually good value.

I should emphasise that all of the above refers to the official products from MMP. There are numerous 3rd-party products available, but I would not recommend even considering buying any of them until you are comfortable with your official components. Even then, gauge public opinion first before sending any money to a 3rd-party company.

The "Desperation Morale" website is a very good resource for researching any product (official or otherwise) before spending money: http://www.desperationmorale.com/.
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Carlo Marinozzi
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jacksonk wrote:
ASLSK is not a necessary step either. There are plenty of folks who learned ASL from ASL. I had to learn ASLSK (learn everything I need to drop) recently to bring some newbies up.

Good luck!!!
Rgds Jack


BruceP wrote:
I don't say that to discourage you from moving to ASL. I strongly encourage such a move. Full ASL is a much better game. ASLSK just gives you a small taste of what ASL is like.


Oh boy, now I'm conflicted!

My cunning plan was to progress from ASLSK 1, 2, 3 anf then Beyond Valor (that's the setting I'm most interested in anyway), but now it seems that's double work. On the other hand, starting with the whole package it's intimidating...

Choices...

 
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JP Laurio
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My suggestion. If you have someone to teach you, go for full ASL. If you are going to learn by yourself, go for ASLSK1.
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Daniel Takai
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A teacher is a good idea. There's quite a few Italian players, you can look them up through here:

http://www.aslitaly.com/
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Peter Kossits
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Carlo M. wrote:

My cunning plan was to progress from ASLSK 1, 2, 3 anf then Beyond Valor (that's the setting I'm most interested in anyway), but now it seems that's double work. On the other hand, starting with the whole package it's intimidating...


Why not just get SK1 for 25$ and learn it and play with it until you get bored and either decide to get more or just stop there? You can spend months with SK1. I played it a little almost every day for 6 months last year. It doesn't really matter at all whether full ASL has much more than SK when you are just starting. You need to learn the game first before that starts being anything to think about. If you buy Beyond Valor first you probably won't use most of it (~90%) for a long time.
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Perry Cocke
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Carlo M. wrote:
jacksonk wrote:
ASLSK is not a necessary step either. There are plenty of folks who learned ASL from ASL. I had to learn ASLSK (learn everything I need to drop) recently to bring some newbies up.

Good luck!!!
Rgds Jack


BruceP wrote:
I don't say that to discourage you from moving to ASL. I strongly encourage such a move. Full ASL is a much better game. ASLSK just gives you a small taste of what ASL is like.


Oh boy, now I'm conflicted!

My cunning plan was to progress from ASLSK 1, 2, 3 anf then Beyond Valor (that's the setting I'm most interested in anyway), but now it seems that's double work. On the other hand, starting with the whole package it's intimidating...

Choices...



It's a good plan.

Go for it.
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Kai Axford
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It's a good plan.

Go for it.


If Perry approves, then that's the plan I'm going with. Last night, I got a bit over-confident in my ASLSK skills and cracked open BOB to review a rule on QSU for Ordnance. EEK! Was quickly overwhelmed and slapped back into my corner.

Get through ASLSK and then start with ASL.
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Bruce Probst
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kaiax33 wrote:
If Perry approves, then that's the plan I'm going with.


It should be remembered that he's not exactly an unbiased observer. If the question is "should I buy more MMP products or fewer?" it's not hard to guess what his answer would be. laugh

I know I have my own biases and certainly my opinion is not shared by many, but: I think the ASLSK ordnance rules (and by extension, a large portion of the AFV rules) are gibberish. If you manage to learn them, great. It's not a feat I can manage. Unfortunately, when you move to ASL you'll realise the rules are organised around a completely different paradigm, so your ASLSK "knowledge" isn't going to help you much.

I think any prospective ASL player can skip ASLSK2 and ASLSK3 safely enough. Or to put it another way, any one of the three will teach you enough of the infantry game to get you going.

Of course it's a bit of a moot point, since the only way you can get the correct ASLSK rule book is by buying DaE, so there's really no point in buying ASLSK 1, 2, or 3 at all.
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Perry Cocke
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BruceP wrote:
kaiax33 wrote:
If Perry approves, then that's the plan I'm going with.


It should be remembered that he's not exactly an unbiased observer. If the question is "should I buy more MMP products or fewer?" it's not hard to guess what his answer would be. laugh

I know I have my own biases...

[snip]

Of course it's a bit of a moot point, since the only way you can get the correct ASLSK rule book is by buying DaE, so there's really no point in buying ASLSK 1, 2, or 3 at all.


Biases aside, I can be at least as objective as Bruce, if not more so.

And when he says "correct ASLSK rule book," you should take that with a grain of salt. There are some minor updates and clarifications after SK#3 that are in DaE, but nothing to interfere with your enjoyment or learning. Get DaE for the game, not for the rules, even though they are the most up-to-date.
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Daniel Takai
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I happened to read the SK3 rulebook last night, and I found it hard to understand, but also hard to find pertinent rule sections. The first starter kit rulebook is great, because there's only a few rules, they're easy to find. The second starter kit rulebook is already much harder to handle. So I recommend combining the move from starter kit to the full ruleset with playing vehicles.
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Bruce Probst
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perrycocke wrote:
And when he says "correct ASLSK rule book," you should take that with a grain of salt. There are some minor updates and clarifications after SK#3 that are in DaE


That's an expensive grain, Perry. Why does MMP not want anyone who hasn't purchased DaE to know what those "minor updates and clarifications" might be?
 
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Perry Cocke
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takai wrote:
I happened to read the SK3 rulebook last night, and I found it hard to understand, but also hard to find pertinent rule sections. The first starter kit rulebook is great, because there's only a few rules, they're easy to find. The second starter kit rulebook is already much harder to handle. So I recommend combining the move from starter kit to the full ruleset with playing vehicles.


Gunz and Tankz are a lot more complicated than just Dudez.
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Joe Gochinski
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Carlo M. wrote:
I'm interested in ASL but I'm a little confused by the sheer number of items comprising the series.

Just to be clear: if I learn the three starter sets, I can play any module or it's simply a starting point?

Thanks for your time


Carlo

A little late to the party here,but I wanted to give my take.

Lots of good suggestions, but I will just say if you go thru each starter kit, 1,2 and 3 and even the Elst HASL, this is a GREAT WAY to get a solid foundation to learn full ASL. I play both ASL/ASLSK, nothing in ASLSK will hinder you or is so foriegn as to cause problems when and if you make the jump to full ASL. Anyone saying differnent has probably not seriously played ASLSK, which is fine!! I am not calling anyone out, but want this stated as a perspective.

Go with your instincts here and please keep in mind what I wrote as a perspective on things. I hope you enjoy ASL/ASLSK and play them!!

Regards
Joe

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