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Subject: A few sundry questions [up to box 5] rss

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Kiri Sittori
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Hail, all!

Just to make sure we're getting things right. Just finished game 8 by opening box 5 (thanks ENTIRELY to a specific advisor being available on my turn.)

1. Shoved in the Deep End (1)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Certain Uncharted Waters cards allow (atolls) or force (dangerous water) you to displace as part of their resolution. If you displace into a hex that includes a CURRENT, do you stop on the current's hex, or is it possible to "slide" in its direction?

The example we had is that a player sailed into UW, drew DW, displaced into a current pointing toward the Dangerous Island, and *this* caused the confusion as he then claimed that the current would slip him onto the island, *and* that the text on the DW card protected him from rolling the DW3 on the island.

We ended up going with that; but how much of that was an error?


2. Hanging your hat in bad places (2)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Just to make sure: if you take a BUILD action to build on your colony, enmity does NOT apply to its prices, na? It's clearer with upgrade, since you're borrowing the local dock to do it.


3. John wrote a hateful booke (4)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I wound up hitting a situation in which the Booke directed me to check local enmity for the outcome. Does an Unconquered Ker cause this check to apply max{local,Patmos} enmity as usual? We played it as yes, which caused the outcome to be bad for me.

Edit to add, related: I'm pretty sure this ISN'T the case; but the Uncharted Waters cards that spawn Locals tend to check enmity on all islands. Suppose I have 1 enmity on Patmos, and none on the other nine islands, and draw a Locals that checks enmity. Would I roll 1 die for the Locals check, or 10?


4. One block lifts the other (1)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
On the island where "This garrison defends against all endeavors", does enmity apply to *all* cases where this would apply, or just to the RAID action?


5. The depths of hatred (5)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Does your enmity with an Advisor affect *my* hire cost?


6. Timing is everything (5)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Society events allow a player to spend 8 gold to dismiss (or destroy if Tortoga is conquered) the event. *When* can/'t this be done?

- When the event is revealed at the start of first player's turn?
- During the briber's turn?
- During anyone's turn?
- At the end of the round, before the Society check is made?
- AFTER the Society check is made, just as the resolution is about to occur?


Thanks!
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I don't have some of the hidden rules in front of me so I can't say for certain on some of these, but here are my opinions based on memory:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
1. I think you all played it correctly. As far as I remember, currents don't require you to do anything but enter the space to use them. And if the Dangerous Waters card says not to roll for another Dangerous Waters, I'd go with that. Does it say that, or does it just say not to draw another Uncharted Waters card?

2. Enmity does not increase prices for building colonies.

3. I believe the unconquered Ker would make it so those checks use the full amount of enmity, yes. It's pretty terrible, but just more incentive for you to conquer it.

4. Garrison and enmity are separate, though they almost always provide the same effect. The garrison defends against all endeavors, so you reduce dice on an explore endeavor at that island by the garrison, but you don't reduce dice for enmity at that island for an explore endeavor (you still do for a raid).

5. No. Your enmity on an advisor affects your hire cost for that advisor; my enmity on an advisor affects my hire cost for that advisor. Enmity on an advisor has no effect if you hire that advisor using Reputation.

6. If I remember right, the opportunity to pay to dismiss/destroy a Society event card is on your turn. You can talk around the table if you want to plan for it, but you have to pay on your turn.
 
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Becq
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1. (Box 1)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Moving with the current is optional. Dangerous waters should trigger if you choose to move into it by moving with the current. The "only triggers once" refers to two ships moving into the DW, not one or two ships moving into several DW over the course of a sail action (or other movement). (Also, there was no DW roll for the uncharted waters card.) So the player had two choices: first he chooses which hex to displace to due to the Uncharted Waters (DW) card. If you opted for the current space, he then can choose whether or not to move with the current. If he opted to do so, though, he'd have to resolve the DW in the destination space.

2. Enmity applies to any time you buy (pay gold for something) from an island (a neutral site). That includes upgrades and goods, but not
(Box 2)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
colony construction, which isn't a purchase, or building a structure on a colony, which is a "purchase", but doesn't involve the a native site. It also doesn't involve goods "purchases" made by certain advisors that don't require gold.

3. What Darren said.
(Box 4)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Yes, officially you use the current effective enmity in both cases. I favor a house rule that the second example (the one where you're adding up enmity) should use the actual stickers/tokens, but that's a house rule. I think Rob suggested that the sum should be capped at something like 12 when asked about this, but I don't recall the number.

4. What Darren said.
5. What Darren said. Note also that this was clarified, and only affects GOLD cost to hire, and does not add to cost if reputation is spent.
6. What Darren said; my recollection is that the card specified that you have to make the choice on your turn.
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Kiri Sittori
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So it seems we were mostly on the right track, then.

And since it hasn't come up in the game yet, I'll bring those #4 interpretations to the table and see how we want to handle it.

Thanks all! (:
 
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Becq
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Did you mean #3? The #4 stuff wasn't really interpretations. For raid, you should always modify your dice pool by both garrison and enmity. For the special case you mentioned, garrison (only) should subtract from dice pools for other actions (that involve rolling a dice pool), too (it's already subtracting from raid pools, so there's no additional effect).
 
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Kiri Sittori
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Yeah, second part of #3, sorry. We're opting to go the sane (house-rule) route with that, rather than the official.
 
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Becq
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Sandslice wrote:
Yeah, second part of #3, sorry. We're opting to go the sane (house-rule) route with that, rather than the official.

You might find that it doesn't make all that much difference, all things considered.

But hey, it feel more sensible than eleventy bajillion, right?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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My mistake on #2. Somehow missed that rule in our 15 games (very rarely came up). Edited my original.
 
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Kiri Sittori
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So a couple of follow-ups. Luckily, the house rule question ended up being rendered irrelevant by bold action (:

1. Unlucky Shoves (3):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Another Currents question came up.

Gray starts with a ship three spaces northeast of a space with a northward current (pointing to the newly dubbed Abun Island.) His ship has a curse forcing him to sail in straight lines.

If he *ends* his Sail action on the current, may he ride it immediately, or would the curse prevent it? What if he hits the current in the middle of a move?

(It's actually the case that he took a different action, pulling his ships together; but just as a reference.)


2. Zero and Null (5):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Of COURSE this came up straightaway. When the basic Society events test for the highest Society rank among advisors of that type, does the event do nothing or go to tiebreakers if:

- No player has any Society advisors of the type;
- No player has ANY advisors of the type


3. Stormin' Norman (5):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
A pair of questions for *both* raids against Unconquered Arados; please excuse me if both of these are actually in the rulebook and I'm just failing at memory and rulebook access.

When doing the first raid to break the temple, do you need to apply 10 successes, or is a simple success enough? (I assume the former.) I know you place only one PE in the case of the success.

When doing the second raid, I know that (as usual for colony raids) you need an undamaged successful outcome to take it. Do you place PE for doing so; and if so, how much?


Thanks again! (:




 
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Darren Nakamura
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Opinions:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
1. Good question. I'd say using the currents to sail breaks the rule of having to sail in straight lines (unless you use the current to continue in the straight line you were going). I might be wrong about that one.

2. The way we played it...
2a. If no player has any Society advisor of that type, nothing happens.
2b. If no player has any advisors of that type, nothing happens.

I have heard of people using the "ties break in favor of lower-ranked players" rule here, but it doesn't make much thematic sense to me. If you have no Society advisor in your council room, then they can't do any sabotage to you from within.

3a. Since it is a structure with a plunder value of 10, you need 10 successes to destroy it.
3b. According to this thread, you place one permanent enmity sticker on it when you conquer it.
 
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Chris Boote
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Sandslice wrote:
So a couple of follow-ups. Luckily, the house rule question ended up being rendered irrelevant by bold action (:

1. Unlucky Shoves (3):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Another Currents question came up.

Gray starts with a ship three spaces northeast of a space with a northward current (pointing to the newly dubbed Abun Island.) His ship has a curse forcing him to sail in straight lines.

If he *ends* his Sail action on the current, may he ride it immediately, or would the curse prevent it? What if he hits the current in the middle of a move?

(It's actually the case that he took a different action, pulling his ships together; but just as a reference.)




I would say that he ended his Sail action after going in a straight line

Then the sea drifted him elsewhere

Perfectly legal and thematically OK too
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Except you can end your sail action on a currents space and not move with the current. It's not a thing the board does to you, it's a choice you make.
 
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Chris Willott
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
if the curse makes it impossible to change heading, you may still be able to still into the current and drift... It would depend on the card wording. Do currents allow you to sail on their direction? Or move? Anne how does it compare to the wording of the curse?
 
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Becq
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1. We ruled that
(Box 3)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
you couldn't make any *choices* that caused you to *sail* in a different direction under that curse. But we did allow
(Box 4 or 5, maybe -- has to do with another kind of movement)
[o]you could still activate portals tat you otherwise legally reached -- but you had to still move in the same direction after leaving the portal.

2. You only get hit by the event if you own the triggering thing. If nobody has a thing that matches the trigger, then nothing happens (unless the card specifically says otherwise.
3. What Darren said.
 
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George
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1. Agree with Becq/Darren, here's my reasoning:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The curse says "Compelled - When sailing, will not turn but will only travel in a straight line."

"Currents - If you move into a space with a current, you may sail out of the space in the direction the current is pointing without spending a point of movement. You do not have to move with the current and moving in any other direction incurs no extra cost."

Since traveling with the current is described as "sailing" I'd say you aren't allowed unless it's in the direction of your "straight line".
I agree with Portals being allowed though.


And for this earlier answer:
Becq wrote:
6. What Darren said; my recollection is that the card specified that you have to make the choice on your turn.

To be precise, the cards say you choose at the start of your turn.



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Kiri Sittori
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soosy wrote:
1. Agree with Becq/Darren, here's my reasoning:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The curse says "Compelled - When sailing, will not turn but will only travel in a straight line."

"Currents - If you move into a space with a current, you may sail out of the space in the direction the current is pointing without spending a point of movement. You do not have to move with the current and moving in any other direction incurs no extra cost."

Since traveling with the current is described as "sailing" I'd say you aren't allowed unless it's in the direction of your "straight line".
I agree with Portals being allowed though.


And for this earlier answer:
Becq wrote:
6. What Darren said; my recollection is that the card specified that you have to make the choice on your turn.

To be precise, the cards say you choose at the start of your turn.





Yep. Got a chance to read the events in question and found that explicitly.

Thanks all, again! (:
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