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La Bataille de la Moscowa» Forums » Sessions

Subject: UTITISA SCENARIO REPLAY rss

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Paul Brown
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Session report of this intro scenario, using GDW rules ‘as-is’ nearly from the 1977 release. As I was learning I did not use skirmishers or cavalry charges.

Turn 2, 8.20am


Turn 6, 9.40am


Turn 11, actually 11.20am


Turn 14, 12.20pm
- called it at this point as the dining table was needed for…family meals….just can’t seem to get them to understand about priorities :0


I must say that these original GDW rules suit me far more than the later versions of the LBd rulesets. That being said, ill rerun this scenario with the La Bataille ME rules to see what extra complexity they layer on.

//Paul
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Jonathan Townsend
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Thanks for that, it is really nice to see. Especially the no-fuss map.
Are the counters quite thin?
I have the original Talavera from the series, I too went with the simpler rules when I played earlier this year, the only thing I would change is the counter thickness.

Was this the opening engagements of the main battle?
 
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Gary Krockover
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An excellent video series on the differences between the Marshall Enterprises rules (same as GDW? Probably close) and Regs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2dXOAfguzA
 
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John S
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Agip wrote:
Thanks for that, it is really nice to see. Especially the no-fuss map.
Are the counters quite thin?
I have the original Talavera from the series, I too went with the simpler rules when I played earlier this year, the only thing I would change is the counter thickness.

Was this the opening engagements of the main battle?


I noted the counters being thin on some of the ME games. The GDW reprint of Moskowa did not suffer from this problem.
 
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John Curley
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<<the Marshall Enterprises rules (same as GDW? Probably close)>>

Gary - Well, not quite. The GDW rules are essentially the same as the Martial Enterprises rules, but differ fairly significantly from the Marshal Enterprises rules (and the subject of Jeff's video series).

After Martial and GDW published La Bat de la Moscowa, Matson and Spors created Marshal Enterprises and published the first iteration of their Premier rules (it's the one with the tan cover and pages), I think with Wagram.

The Martial/GDW rules are simpler than the Marshal rules, for example - no line/column formation, disorder/rout are abstracted. But they contain elements that are still part of La Bataille, for example - 2d6 morale, fire, and melee systems, ranged fire for artillery, roll to form square when charged by cavalry, skirmishers units.

You can get the original Martial and GDW rules on Marshal's labataille.me website.
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Paul Brown
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OK, trying to keep up with various postings.

The GDW counters are nice glossy & thick :-) it is the Marshall gamres of this period that have thin counters. I have the Eylau game & they are THIN but very colourful!

Regarding rules complexity; I conrinue to favour the Martial/GDW approach, especially having rerun the session with the Marshall ME rules. But that just me.Will try & post some thoughts about why I do soon.

//Paul
 
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Paul Brown
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Utitsa scenario - thinking aloud
Random thoughts on my recent replay of this scenario..and first try out of the GDW rules

1. Cossack swarm tactics: cossacks have very high mps; means they can circle around just about anything and attack from the rear. I thought it would be a killer tactic but they are reined in by the Refuse to Fight table and the general indecisiveness of the Melee table

2. Morale checks: I had no morale checks at all throughout the replay. Probably doing something wrong but there were no actual charges and no overstacking. The final reason for taking a morale check (high casualties in one go) was overidden by the regroup rule as units melt away to the regroup box once they hit 50% casualty level.

3. Regroup rule: there I was thinking XTR’s Hell Before Night ACW game of 1997 had come up with an innovative mechanic in how it handled routed units and what do you know it was there already in 1977’s Moscowa. Well even earlier in the 1975 Martial edition I guess. I do like the way it declutters the map and separates the rebuilding of shattered units from the on-map action.

4.French fragility: French and their Allies have battalions weighing in at 3-4 sp. This means that with only 2 casualties they melt away to the regroup chart. Whereas the Russkies weigh in at 5-7 sp and have juuuust a little bit more staying power. Not saying it is right or wrong but just a feature of the game design. Makes a busy Corps Commander think hard about how he feeds battalions into the combat!


5.Do Regiment counters have a point?
They are big, slow and wonderful artillery targets. OK they have a bit more firepower and melee strength but otherwise I’m struggling as to why I shouldn’t immediately swop them out for their component battalions. Clearly I’m missing something in the rules.

6.Fire chart: Vast majority of my fire attacks were easily resolved by rolling the dice and discounting anything below 51 as a miss. This was because most of the fire attacks landed on about 4 columns of the chart (1-2, 1-1.5, 1-1, 1.5-1) and you needed to get into the 50’s or 60’s for a hit. There was the ocassional 4-1 ‘kapow’ attack when stacked batteries and infantry could concentrate their fire at an adjacent enemy, but they were rare. I was OK with this simplicity as I can see it would help tremendously when resolving numerous fire attacks per turn when playing the grand battle.

7. Attritional assaults: Strangely melee assaults were somewhat indecisive. They would end up with between 1-2 casualties per side and possibly a defender retreat. So assaults were coming over more as attritional firefights being done at very close range rather than spirited attempts to close with the enemy and break his morale with the threat of a good bayoneting. This is probably why I read in the notes to one of the later rulesets in the La Bataille series. In it, Ed Wimble said that some of the rule changes were to make Assaults more decisive.

8. The all-powerful Square: Hmmm...again I must be doing something wrong. Easy to change in and out of square; same fire value; same target value and same melee value as a column. Much better at defending against cavalry. Why would I want to use any other infantry formation :-0 Then, of course, I discovered the house rules ‘Richmond Wargames Club’ on CSW which go some way to representing squares as they actually were used in Napoleonic battles.

Overall though I do get on with the GDW rules as an earlier 'de-cluttered' version of the LBd rulesets. I probably would, however, fold in the opportunity fire and reaction charge rules to counter the convoluted manouevring that sometimes goes on while the opponents units are 'frozen' in place

Enjoy

//Paul
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Paul Brown
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Re: Training scenario - GDW rules
Reset everything and used all the GDW rules on a homegrown scenario. Used tile spacers to indicate skirmishers as it is tricky to spot them and didnt want to flip them and create more white squares on the mapboard.

Anyway this was a good way to progress thro the GDW rules and figure out some its nuances e.g. dont assault in forest, that x2 on defence will chew up your attackers!

I really must figure out how to improve the look of unlimbered guns. For some reason the little white squares with numbers on don't do it for me. I guess they just dont shout "Eat some 8pdr roundshot punk" in the way the NATO symbol seems to.

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