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Subject: Ten Thoughts on this years WBC rss

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Max Jamelli
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DaviddesJ wrote:


How do you prevent people playing 18xx from hiding extra money in their pockets?


I've never played 18XX -- but in UP there were issues with that many moons ago.

When I GM'ed UP, I created half sheets with UP logos on them and money was required to be on the table at all times under those sheets. Granted in UP you're not using the money to buy anything like you are in 18XX.
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Daniel Ottey
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Spleen wrote:

having a draft may allow some players to 'improve synergy' or 'build better combos', but overall it's a huge negative for the tournament.

Do you want your tournament fate to be determined by seat draw more than by your play? Then use a draft. Inexperienced players will feed those around them, and the poor souls that sit next to better players will have to hope that they get a good card in their original hand, but not more than one.

Playing this event was a mistake I don't make again. Tournament time is too valuable to waste, and this tournament took a LOOOOOOOOONG time.


I played in all four heats. My first game ended in just over two hours. The other three ended in under 3 hours (which was the allotted time slot). Yes, 3 hours is longer than the 2 hour box time, but I think I had the most enjoyment from the four tournament plays than I have in my other 20+ plays of it. I'll be in the tournament next year if there is one!

The only part of the tournament that took too long (in my opinion) was checking-in and arranging tables for the first heat. But the GM revised plans and check-in was much more efficient for the remaining three heats.
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Gareth Williams
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mkiefte wrote:

I'm kind of glad they didn't. If there were civilians at the bar, it would have been annoying for the tournament players.


We're calling them "civilians" now?

What was wrong with "muggles"?
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Marty Sample
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otteydw wrote:
Spleen wrote:

having a draft may allow some players to 'improve synergy' or 'build better combos', but overall it's a huge negative for the tournament.

Do you want your tournament fate to be determined by seat draw more than by your play? Then use a draft. Inexperienced players will feed those around them, and the poor souls that sit next to better players will have to hope that they get a good card in their original hand, but not more than one.

Playing this event was a mistake I don't make again. Tournament time is too valuable to waste, and this tournament took a LOOOOOOOOONG time.


I played in all four heats. My first game ended in just over two hours. The other three ended in under 3 hours (which was the allotted time slot). Yes, 3 hours is longer than the 2 hour box time, but I think I had the most enjoyment from the four tournament plays than I have in my other 20+ plays of it. I'll be in the tournament next year if there is one!

The only part of the tournament that took too long (in my opinion) was checking-in and arranging tables for the first heat. But the GM revised plans and check-in was much more efficient for the remaining three heats.


Actually with drafting , under three hours is shorter than I would have thought it would end up taking, that's encouraging.
 
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Daniel Ottey
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Marty S wrote:
Actually with drafting , under three hours is shorter than I would have thought it would end up taking, that's encouraging.


I did hear of and see other tables that took longer. Maybe I got lucky at my table placement.
 
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Christopher Yaure
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Marty S wrote:


5. On the ride home, my co-pilot ( the ever entertaining Rob Seulowitz ) and I discussed the satisfaction in seeing younger attendees participate in non Junior events. Yours truly was taken out in the Mulligan round of War of the Ring by a 10-12 year old, I wish I caught his name. He stood his ground despite my military forces laying waste to Gondor; he put on his track shoes and gamely sprinted the Hobbits up Mt Doom and dunked the Ring with only 2 Corruption to spare.

He then showed up to the first round heat despite the bye he earned in the Mulligan because he wanted to learn more about the game ! It got me thinking...the Tour de France has not only a yellow jersey for the overall winning rider, but also a white jersey for best young rider. Perhaps some sort of Junior Caesar award for juniors ? While I agree there is a need for all junior events, I think its equally important to encourage them to try to kick the adult asses, as we've all seen many times over the years.


I believe the young man to whom you are referring is George Kyrollos, son of Owen. I was nearly George's victim in round 1, when on the final tile pull he had a 3/8 chance of winning and a 1/8 chance of extending the game. He went into Mordor with 9 corruption points, then played 4(!) cards that reduced his corruption to 4, after saving some of them from the beginning of the game. He discarded quite a few cards throughout the game, focusing on his sprint and heal strategy - and it came very close to succeeding.

George was a pleasure to play.
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Christopher Yaure
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mkiefte wrote:
Wilphe wrote:

They opened the bar in the Ski Lodge last year and didn't get many takers, the one bartender who did come down to give wait service in Rathskeller got in trouble for leaving it unattended

From discussions it seems they didn't make any more money doing it, though we were able to get wait service in there for Thursday night and the bar was open Friday for a few hours for B-17

I'd like to see something for this next year though I know we are a tight fisted bunch


I'm kind of glad they didn't. If there were civilians at the bar, it would have been annoying for the tournament players.


Personally, I don't find the presence of civilians/muggles annoying. I spoke with several muggles during WBC, including one couple next to the Foggy Bottom bar while waiting for my War of the Ring game to begin. I gave them the BPA website link so they could share it with their adult son, who has a painted copy of WotR in their basement.
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Marty Sample
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actuaryesquire wrote:
Marty S wrote:


5. On the ride home, my co-pilot ( the ever entertaining Rob Seulowitz ) and I discussed the satisfaction in seeing younger attendees participate in non Junior events. Yours truly was taken out in the Mulligan round of War of the Ring by a 10-12 year old, I wish I caught his name. He stood his ground despite my military forces laying waste to Gondor; he put on his track shoes and gamely sprinted the Hobbits up Mt Doom and dunked the Ring with only 2 Corruption to spare.

He then showed up to the first round heat despite the bye he earned in the Mulligan because he wanted to learn more about the game ! It got me thinking...the Tour de France has not only a yellow jersey for the overall winning rider, but also a white jersey for best young rider. Perhaps some sort of Junior Caesar award for juniors ? While I agree there is a need for all junior events, I think its equally important to encourage them to try to kick the adult asses, as we've all seen many times over the years.


I believe the young man to whom you are referring is George Kyrollos, son of Owen. I was nearly George's victim in round 1, when on the final tile pull he had a 3/8 chance of winning and a 1/8 chance of extending the game. He went into Mordor with 9 corruption points, then played 4(!) cards that reduced his corruption to 4, after saving some of them from the beginning of the game. He discarded quite a few cards throughout the game, focusing on his sprint and heal strategy - and it came very close to succeeding.

George was a pleasure to play.


Yes that was him. When he said he wanted more practice, I joked maybe he'd draw you as an opponent and did. Kid is mature beyond his years. He'll win that thing some day.
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Chris Kizer

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I played George in Round 2 (thanks to his bye from the Mulligan round). I was initially surprised when he bid 2 rings to play the FP, and happily accepted. I almost regretted that decision when the Fellowship raced into Mordor several turns later! I managed to pull the last tile I needed for a corruption victory at the last step on the Mordor track. I'm looking forward to seeing him again next year, he's got a lot of talent!
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Grant LaDue
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Kolumel wrote:
Marty hit what would have been most of my main points as well.

I strongly endorse idea of giving some sort of recognition to young players who play in adult events. For example, Grant's two high school daughters whipped many people in Conquest of Paradise.

Another idea to stimulate a new generation of gamers might be to allow drop-ins" for a nominal fee at the youth room. I saw several "civilian" visitors whose kids were asking to be allowed to play games in the kids room. I doubt they'd want to buy a WBC pass (or know how).





To be fair, Rachel is 18 and off to Cornell soon, but Morgan would qualify. Last year though....

An "18 and under Caesar" would be cool.
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Frank McNally
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Too bad the Caesar title is not Augustus. Then we could follow the pattern where Augustus was the emperor and Caesar the designated heir. I suppose "Princeps Iuventutis" could be used. Based on Wikipedia-

"Caesar" had been regularised into that of a title given to the Emperor-designate (occasionally also with the honorific title Princeps Iuventutis, "Prince of Youth")"
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Michael Sosa
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The median age of attendance at the classic Sunday morning Attack Sub tournament is probably 50. Yet the final was between two teenagers!

If attendance increases at WBC I'm sure more of those bars will be open. We certainly have a lot of room to grow at 7 Springs! I do wonder what was this year's attendance and what's the mex number of folks we could have based on accommodations at the site.
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Marty Sample
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Game space wise, we have a fair amount of room to grow IMO. The Ski Lodge is still pretty empty at times. And late in the week, I think the hall adjacent to Open Gaming isn't used that much, it could hold some large events. I can't speak to the smaller rooms on the lower levels, I only played one event in there the whole week. There are a ton of them though. I don't know if we used them all. Early in the week, we don't use the room used by vendors starting Thursday night for set up. It's actually a nice room, with plenty of natural light.

Room for future growth was one factor the Board took into consideration.
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Pierre Massar
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Had a great time at WBC this year; my very FIRST one (after wanting to attend for almost 10 years now). Seventy one other "bomber pilots" in attendance.

Had a wonderful time playing B17; Queen of the Skies tourney that took over 10 1/4 hours to complete! Three missions: Mission 1- Oshersleben, Germany, 11 Jan 44 (an absolute GRUELING mission; "Reich Air Defense" was particularly aggressive); Mission 2-Frankfurt, Germany, 29 Jan 44; and Mission 3- Frankfurt, Germany (Part "Deux"), 8 Feb 44.

As echo'ed, the facilities (and food) was fab; the camaraderie of all the players I encountered was stellar! I hope/will attend next year with more tournaments to attend, now.
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Richard Irving
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[q="Marty S"] Game space wise, we have a fair amount of room to grow IMO. {/q]

We had room to grow at the Host--the "Tennis Barn" for overflow open gaming was all but unused.

Quote:
The Ski Lodge is still pretty empty at times. I can't speak to the smaller rooms on the lower levels, I only played one event in there the whole week. There are a ton of them though.


Most of them were a full at most times with an occasional slot open here or there. Some of these slots were single final--which means one table. Two or three of these can be combined in one room to open up more slots.

Quote:

And late in the week, I think the hall adjacent to Open Gaming isn't used that much, it could hold some large events. I don't know if we used them all.


Other than for demos. It is also overflow open gaming--Especially Tuesday and Saturday . It'd be another spot were isolated finals could be held.

Quote:
Early in the week, we don't use the room used y vendors starting Thursday night for set up. It's actually a nice room, with plenty of natural light.


They probably don't pay for the room Timberstone Room on those dates.

The ballroom is twice as large as the Ballroom B at the Host and cavernous with three medium sized (70-100 participants) running at the same time. Another similar sized event could easily fit there at most times.

Quote:
Room for future growth was one factor the Board took into consideration.


The Host (including Tennis Barn) and Seven Springs have similar amounts of room, but it seems more flexible/useful at Seven Springs. And certainly nicer to play in!
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Frank McNally
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Wednesday afternoon, we felt quite alone in Rathskeller. It almost felt like it was late at night at 4-5pm, as we could not see the more active area around corner in Foggy Brews.
 
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Marty Sample
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FrankM wrote:
Wednesday afternoon, we felt quite alone in Rathskeller. It almost felt like it was late at night at 4-5pm, as we could not see the more active area around corner in Foggy Brews.


I didn't even know that room existed til this year. It was rather hot back there when full.
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Craig Yope
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After last year not really having an end of the night hang out bar, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the remodeled Matterhorn was open every night this year.

It took a couple of nights to convince people that it was open and more importantly to explain where it was located. Once people figured it out then it was hopping.

With things a bit more spread out at 7S it nice to have a centrally located spot for finishing the day. I thought the new 7/10 place might be a good spot too but it closes at 10 pm. Nice Alabama Smoke sandwich.

Foggy Brews would be nice but it's too far out of the way to be practical. Now they could still have one of the upper level, main area bars open like they did last year. There was a few days last year that the one next to the PoG/WotR area was serving.

Food potions- the one meal in the lower lodge food court- the mash potatoes, chicken chunks, corn, gravy, and cheese- was oversized. If it was two-thirds the size of what is given, it would be perfect.

Overall I think this a great fit for us. We are still adjusting to new digs and some of the event time scheduling/room choices leave a bit to be desired but the shift to a full nine day convention is also contributing to the issue.

Still a great time.
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Marty Sample
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Yoper wrote:
We are still adjusting to new digs a


And just as importantly the digs/hotel staff are still adjusting to us and our somewhat unique needs.

One thing that occurred to me is that they may not have the staff to open as many places as we like. I am sure they have a ton of seasonal help during ski season - when we are there they probably max out their off season staff.
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Frank McNally
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The number of staff they do provide is surprising and encouraging. They could easily staff lighter, which would be more optimal for them but less convenient for us, the dining wait-times rarely reach pain/walk-way durations (only the AM coffee line runs long--and that seems to happen every where fancy coffee drinks are served). Pro-tip, bring Kourig cups for your hotel room maker.
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Joel Tamburo
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Our new digs are indeed fab - clean, properly lit, good tables and chairs, good food and contrary to some assertions not overpriced and great people working it all.

As to our adapting, I do think we are going to have to change some things. Some possibilities:

a) With our more spread out layout it can be a major issue for a GM to run a demo then get to their own event site on time. We need to either cease scheduling the demo immediately before the event or have the Demos instead at the same physical location as the event and repurpose the exhibit area currently used for them.

b) Relocate the kiosks. I agree with those saying that mobility impaired access can be easily improved on our part by moving the kiosks somewhere roomier.

c) We did have a couple of instances this year where events that requested no conflict was scheduled in conflict anyway - this I attribute to ordinary glitches in a transition year.

d) This one I will need to think out more thoroughly, but it may be time for us to go to "tracks" for events. Tracks is a system where categories are defined for games and then all games in like categories are grouped for things like scheduling, location and possibly even Century status.

Again this flows in part from the more spread out layout but also from us now being a 9 day convention. I am aware the Euros already try to do this to some extent but perhaps the time has come to formalize it.
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Frank McNally
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Does anyone know how to build a poll of form:

What games did you miss this year owing to conflict? (check box of all century/trial/junior events)

For each Box checked a drop down "what game did you miss event for?" with drop down list of events to choose from.

This would provide very nice feedback to GMs.

Polling the top 10 desired events to attend would be of interest as well.
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Marty Sample
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Joelist wrote:


a) With our more spread out layout it can be a major issue for a GM to run a demo then get to their own event site on time. We need to either cease scheduling the demo immediately before the event or have the Demos instead at the same physical location as the event and repurpose the exhibit area currently used for them.


Esp for two player games, the area the event is being held is not necessarily the best place. What I saw some GMs do is split duties with the asst GM, one does the demo while the other one does the sign ins at the event space. Perhaps the GM form could have a space where the GM indicates a preference for a gap ( say one hour ) between end of demo and the start of the event. This however increases the overall time commitment to the event.

Joelist wrote:


b) Relocate the kiosks. I agree with those saying that mobility impaired access can be easily improved on our part by moving the kiosks somewhere roomier.


Where then? GMs need an easy place to stop by and pick them up as well as being somewhat close to the gaming areas. They are awkward to carry. I am not arguing they lead to congestion.

Joelist wrote:


d) This one I will need to think out more thoroughly, but it may be time for us to go to "tracks" for events. Tracks is a system where categories are defined for games and then all games in like categories are grouped for things like scheduling, location and possibly even Century status.

Again this flows in part from the more spread out layout but also from us now being a 9 day convention. I am aware the Euros already try to do this to some extent but perhaps the time has come to formalize it.


Nobody is stopping folks from doing this on their own, and my understanding is that it was tried to a certain degree with the CDG genre. I do know GMs contact each other about games they think may conflict. But at the end of the day, people will always have to make choices on the schedule.
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Christopher Yaure
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Important points, all.

Joelist wrote:
Our new digs are indeed fab - clean, properly lit, good tables and chairs, good food and contrary to some assertions not overpriced and great people working it all.

As to our adapting, I do think we are going to have to change some things. Some possibilities:

a) With our more spread out layout it can be a major issue for a GM to run a demo then get to their own event site on time. We need to either cease scheduling the demo immediately before the event or have the Demos instead at the same physical location as the event and repurpose the exhibit area currently used for them.


I ran two demos (Roll for the Galaxy and War of the Ring). One was two hours before Heat 1 and one was the day before Round 1. The GM has a great deal of latitude in scheduling demos.

Quote:
b) Relocate the kiosks. I agree with those saying that mobility impaired access can be easily improved on our part by moving the kiosks somewhere roomier.


I was not aware of the problem. Perhaps along the walls of the Ballroom could be used - this would remain relatively central.

Quote:
c) We did have a couple of instances this year where events that requested no conflict was scheduled in conflict anyway - this I attribute to ordinary glitches in a transition year.

d) This one I will need to think out more thoroughly, but it may time for us to go to "tracks" for events. Tracks is a system where categories are defined for games and then all games in like categories are grouped for things like scheduling, location and possibly even Century status.

Again this flows in part from the more spread out layout but also from us now being a 9 day convention. I am aware the Euros already try to do this to some extent but perhaps the time has come to formalize it.


Eric Freeman does a great job of herding the cats who comprise most of the euro GMs. Given that GMs continue to be a scarce resource, I would not favor imposing another mandatory process on them.
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Christopher Yaure
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I should also mention I do not consider conflicts to be a scheduling problem. There are approximately 115 hours of scheduled gaming at WBC, and far more than that many hours of games I want to play. Conflicts are an unavoidable result of so many excellent games from which to choose.

I consider gaps in the schedule where there is nothing I want to play a much bigger issue, and there were very few of those. The schedule worked for me.
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