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Subject: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Thousand Form Faction Contest rss

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Bruno Freitas
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The Horsemen of Apocalypse

Download at http://www.aspenconsult.net/mallachain/CW/Horsemen/

Contents: 6 cultists, 1 high priest, 5 horsemen

Faction Ability:

Harmony of Dissonance
Ongoing: At the start of each Action Phase select another Player. Each time that Player performs an action you may move one of your units without spending Power.

Special Units: (terrors)

Death, count 1, summon cost 3, combat 2. When moving, Death can move to any space on the map.

Pestilence, count 1, summon cost 3, combat 2. Non-horsemen units roll 1 fewer dice during combat involving Pestilence.

Famine, count 1, summon cost 3, combat 2. When Famine enters play all other Players lose 1 Power.

War, count 1, summon cost 3, combat 2. War negates Opponents' pre and post-battle effects during combats involving War.

The Harbinger of Apocalypse, count 1, summon cost: 3, combat 2. If this unit dies, return it to a space on the map where you have units, after another Player's action.

Spellbooks:

Death on Feathery Wings (ongoing)
While Death is in play, every time a Horseman dies (including Death) you gain an Elder Sign, limited to 1 per action.

Pestilence Stalks the Land (post-battle)
While Pestilence is in play, when a Horseman is Killed (including Pestilence) you apply a Kill to the opposing Player.

Feast or Famine (ongoing)
While Famine is in play, increase all other Factions' unit cost by 1. If a Player pays you 1 Power during Gather Power phase, he can ignore that effect until his next Gather Power phase.

Drums of War (ongoing)
While War is in play, every time a Player starts a Combat you receive 1 Doom.

The End Times (post-battle)
Whenever the Harbinger of Apocalypse is involved in a Combat, all dice results from opposing Player applies to his units as well.

Through Fire and Flames (ongoing)
At anytime transform one of your Acolyte Cultists anywhere on the map into a Horseman (it must be available in your pool). Flip this spellbook until the next Gather Power phase.

Spellbook Requirements:

1- As an action gain and reveal an Elder Sign. All other Players gain that much Power.
2- As an action reveal and discard an Elder Sign. All other Players gain that much Power.
3- Another Player rolls 6 or more dices on a Combat against you
4- Another Player has 4 spellbooks
5- Kill a Great Old One
6- Summon all Horsemen

FAQ

Q: Is the Harbinger a Great Old One?
A: No.

Q: Is this faction lacking a Great Old One?
A: Yes. It is a godless faction, meaning that 99% of the time it will be unable to summom Great Old Ones.
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Benjamin Dosher
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
So I have a few questions and suggestions
1) I think insatiable hunger should only effect places that where you have horse men, or in battles that have a horse men. Otherwise I just think it is way to powerful of an effect.

2) it might be helpful to have a token or something that you can give to the player affected by spiritual parasitism. Also, if a battle happens where you have your cultists (controlled by another player), can you use them as kills and pains?

3) with "death on feathery wings" does the last part mean you can pay 1 doom point to gain the effect? And if so do you pay it to the player that did the kill or do you just lose 1 point?

4) with "pestilence stalks the land", personally I feel like you need to rework that one a little bit. I don't think you would want to sacerfice your horse men, so I feel like it would be more of a buff for other players. Or is that what it is intended to be?

 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
So I have a few questions and suggestions
1) I think insatiable hunger should only effect places that where you have horse men, or in battles that have a horse men. Otherwise I just think it is way to powerful of an effect.

I like to think this ability more like "add 1 to the cost of every unit you summom or recruit". As it affects only units removed from the game, and is a generalized effect I am not that sure it is overpowered. I feel it is thematically involved with the meaning of Famine and the lack of resources.

2) it might be helpful to have a token or something that you can give to the player affected by spiritual parasitism. Also, if a battle happens where you have your cultists (controlled by another player), can you use them as kills and pains?

A token might be useful, but I believe that a single cultist from that player, on top of the faction's sheet might be enough. You can not use the cultists, as they are in control of another player.

3) with "death on feathery wings" does the last part mean you can pay 1 doom point to gain the effect? And if so do you pay it to the player that did the kill or do you just lose 1 point?

Yes. Just loose.

4) with "pestilence stalks the land", personally I feel like you need to rework that one a little bit. I don't think you would want to sacerfice your horse men, so I feel like it would be more of a buff for other players. Or is that what it is intended to be?

It was intended for everyone to use.

Thanks for your comments!
 
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Lee Talbert
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
These guys sound interesting. Terrors and no GOO's is another cool way to diversify the factions. Over the last month I have learned that I am not very good at judging these factions by just looking at their faction sheets. We have been mixing the expansion factions in since I received my OS2 pledge and they all seem like they can be devastating in a vacuum until you actually play them. Have you had a chance to play test these guys? I'm curious about the interaction of The End Times and something like Tcho Tcho's Sycophancy. Anyway I really like the idea behind these guys. Good luck in the contest.
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
inttruder wrote:
These guys sound interesting. Terrors and no GOO's is another cool way to diversify the factions. Over the last month I have learned that I am not very good at judging these factions by just looking at their faction sheets. We have been mixing the expansion factions in since I received my OS2 pledge and they all seem like they can be devastating in a vacuum until you actually play them. Have you had a chance to play test these guys? I'm curious about the interaction of The End Times and something like Tcho Tcho's Sycophancy. Anyway I really like the idea behind these guys. Good luck in the contest.

Hi!

Thanks for the input! Actually I haven't tested yet, as I do not own the game anymore. I just bought some minis that fit the theme, so I decided to make the faction, so when I am able to play I can use them.

I have been thinking about 1 week this faction. Sometimes I just let it go, then I revisit it to see if it sounds too op to me, as I have plenty game experience (enough to see the obvious) I guess

Feel free to test it!
 
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Chris O
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
Quote:
as I do not own the game anymore.


You are aware that you have to be a backer of the current kickstarter in order to enter the contest, right?
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
chaos0xomega wrote:
Quote:
as I do not own the game anymore.


You are aware that you have to be a backer of the current kickstarter in order to enter the contest, right?

But I am a backer
 
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Chris O
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
ah okay, I thought you weren't since you said you no longer own it, nevermind.
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
chaos0xomega wrote:
ah okay, I thought you weren't since you said you no longer own it, nevermind.

It's ok!

Can you share your impressions?
 
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Chris O
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
Im not sure what to make of it to be honest. At first glance I love it, its highly thematic and very interesting. The Ritual based mechanics seem really powerful and potentially unbalanced, however, and I'm really not sure how I feel about Insatiable Hunger... I think it will drastically slow down the game and make it drag on for longer, and makes it very difficult for any other faction to win - it basically forces them to perform Ritual of Annihilation in order to be sure they have enough doom points to be able to afford to pay the doom tax, which just makes it easier for this faction to win.
Also one of the spellbook requirements has me scratching my head:

"3- Prevent any Great Old One from dying"

What do you mean by this? How is this achieved?
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
Chris, thanks for your impressions.

Quote:
At first glance I love it, its highly thematic and very interesting.

Thanks! Making interesting things is the hardest part of development.

Quote:
The Ritual based mechanics seem really powerful and potentially unbalanced

From my game experience I have never seen a game finishing on Instant Death, and I have played a lot.

That said, the mechanic try to press the game on matters regarding ritualling.

However, even by ritualling the is won only if the Harbinger is in play (I know that there are ways to secure that, but still is a disadvantage).

Another point is the faction's desire/necessity to ritual both during Doom Phase and making (wasting) actions and subsequently power, even if at a discount.

Quote:
I'm really not sure how I feel about Insatiable Hunger...

I wanted to tax bringing units into play, after they are killed, just to emulate a more difficult world with scarce resources, thematicaly related to hunger and famine itself.

However just didn't want to say "pay one more to summon or recruit". Also, giving the player the option of paying power or doom opens for possibilities.

Quote:
I think it will drastically slow down the game and make it drag on for longer, and makes it very difficult for any other faction to win - it basically forces them to perform Ritual of Annihilation in order to be sure they have enough doom points to be able to afford to pay the doom tax, which just makes it easier for this faction to win.

I am not that sure. The only obligatory spending is related to bringing the dead from outside the game, and even that may be paid with power. Besides, even if the other factions decide to ritual, they will probably do that when it is lucrative (this faction doesn't have a goo to give them elder signs).

The point is, ritualling twice in a turn (doom phase and action) will be expensive in the long run, even with discounts, which leads to a lack of Power for other purposes, like capture, combat and movement, requiring more surgically actions.

Quote:
Also one of the spellbook requirements has me scratching my head:

"3- Prevent any Great Old One from dying"

What do you mean by this? How is this achieved?

You pay 1 doom with Death on Feathery Wings to prevent the goo from dying,as it can be used to save any unit in play, not only yours.
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
Just remember that all spellbooks (almost) are related to a particular horseman, so when they are not in play, that sb is useless.
 
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J Gilbert
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
I really like the overall theme of this faction. That being said I do have some ideas on the faction.

Spiritual Parasitism - Cool idea but implementation seems clunky. personally I would implement this as an automatic choice during gather power or doom. Something like 'during the gather power phase choose an opponent. You count as the controller of those cultists in addition to the current owner, except you may not perform actions other than summon with them.
This would entirely remove the need for the faction to have it's own cultists. You would however need some sort of marker to give the player though then. Also would need to change spellbook requirement 5 to something else such as awaken the harbinger, or all your horsemen are in an areas with enemies.

The idea of forcing instant death and benefiting from it is interesting. Some of the spellbooks seem overpowered, however that might not be an issue with such a low unit count.

Finally I would adjust the wording on Death on Feathery Wings to make it clear you can spend a doom to save anyone's unit from dying in addition to the owner and maybe make accepting the doom from others mandatory unless you are paying the cost.

The faction seems really thematic and cool but would definitely need some playtesting to ensure it is balanced against the other factions.
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
Thanks J Gilbert!

I have already sent the faction to the contest. If it is chosen, I am sure Sandy will tweak and make it official. If not, we can keep discussing!

Anyway I thank you for the time spent reading through!
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
nbdyman wrote:
Some of the spellbooks seem overpowered, however that might not be an issue with such a low unit count.

Could you pinpoint which of them? Why?
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
nbdyman wrote:
Spiritual Parasitism - Cool idea but implementation seems clunky. personally I would implement this as an automatic choice during gather power or doom. Something like 'during the gather power phase choose an opponent. You count as the controller of those cultists in addition to the current owner, except you may not perform actions other than summon with them.
This would entirely remove the need for the faction to have it's own cultists. You would however need some sort of marker to give the player though then. Also would need to change spellbook requirement 5 to something else such as awaken the harbinger, or all your horsemen are in an areas with enemies.

I see your point and already thought about it.

I decided to go with cultist for some reasons. First, I have booth maroon and grey cultists and would like to put them to use. Second, a cultist lacking faction could lead to a lack of player options, even if they are less optimal or even plain wrong gamewise. Third, I decided to go with an action and a costly one, to prevent abuse and offer options (again).

Regarding wording, as a non-native speaker I sometimes have trouble in expressing ideas in English, so if something can be written in a more optimal form, please, tell me how so I can update with better wording.
 
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J Gilbert
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
Any of the spellbooks that are global I could see becoming OP in higher player counts. Maybe changing them to affect the areas with the horsemen or adjacent areas only would at least give opponents more options for counter play. Also harmony of dissonance should probably be limited somehow or made more expensive. I have seen games where a faction got as many as 4 spellbooks in a single turn, 4 spellbooks for 4 power seems way too strong and allows you to ignore your own requirements just by helping out another player.
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
nbdyman wrote:
Any of the spellbooks that are global I could see becoming OP in higher player counts. Maybe changing them to affect the areas with the horsemen or adjacent areas only would at least give opponents more options for counter play. Also harmony of dissonance should probably be limited somehow or made more expensive. I have seen games where a faction got as many as 4 spellbooks in a single turn, 4 spellbooks for 4 power seems way too strong and allows you to ignore your own requirements just by helping out another player.

Harmony of Dissonance could be an once per turn effect. I am ok with that.

The others 3 ongoing are Drums of War, Death on Feathery Wings and Insatiable Hunger. The first and third are mandatory, with the last being more of a problem for other players as it increases cost to resummon or recruit units.

Drums of War can be potentially op in a high player count and if all players start attacking each other (is it that common?). Maybe we can fix that by setting a limit like the number of players?

Insatiable Hunger can also be an economic powerhouse. Maybe instead of receiving the Doom or Power, it can just be spent like an ordinary cost.

This way, the faction would balance it's economy by getting doom from Death on Feathery Wings and Power from Drums of War. I am ok with that too.
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
I have updated the faction with the discussion above.

I will wait until tomorrow to send the files again to the contest.
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
I just couldn't resist the urge to give each Horsemen a special ability.

They are:

Death, count 1, summon cost 4, combat 4. When moving Death can move up to two spaces. Death is a terror.

Pestilence, count 1, summon cost 4, combat 4. Non-horsemen units roll 1 fewer dice during combat involving Pestilence. Pestilence is a terror.

Famine, count 1, summon cost 4, combat 4. Famine costs 1 less power for each other unit that died since the last gather power phase. Famine is a terror.

War, count 1, summon cost 4, combat 4. War negates pre-battle and post-battle effects during combat involving War. War is a terror.

They still cost 4 (except Famine), roll a fixed number of dices (except Harbinger), but have salient abilities that work only when they are involved in combat (War and Pestilence), summoned (Famine) or moving (Death).

I will send the updated contest files tonight. Comments?
 
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Faction Contest
Hey! We just got into top 3!

Thanks for all the votes!

I would really like to see Sandy commenting here
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Re: The Horsemen of Apocalypse Thousand Form Faction Contest (TOP 3)
To prevent abuse, I changed the Death on Feathery Wings rules, so when this faction decides to save an unit from being killed, the player must pay Power instead of Doom.
 
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Bruno Freitas
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After tests I have concluded that the faction as it was presented was simply unable to be properly played.

That said, I have reworked it so it is a more combat focused faction.

Impressions are highly appreciated!
 
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Alex Hobbit
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So the rules in the first post are the ones you wanna get tested and not the download version?
 
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Bruno Freitas
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Alcex wrote:
So the rules in the first post are the ones you wanna get tested and not the download version?

I assume they are the same rules.
 
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