Oak Wolf
msg tools
mbmb
Just leaving this so that perhaps someone doing some proofing will read this.

The Stark Longbowmen unit should be renamed Stark Bowmen if they are to be any accurate in their current state.

1. The artwork show them with regular bows (too short to be longbows by a long margin). Longbows are about 72 inches high, often as tall as the archer.

2. The 3d renders depict recurve/composite bows, which are really different from Longbows.

It's far from a big issue, but I just expect this game and setting to try to show more precision when it comes to weaponry...at least far more so than warhammer or runewars.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Duncan Idaho
United States
NYC
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also, for when they inevitably announce dragons, they are at least 10m long and have no fewer than 7 spikes protruding from their heads.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was under the impression that GRRM was approving likenesses, so things should end up looking right. Or did I just imagine that?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oak Wolf
msg tools
mbmb
Likeness, yes...so we should be fine for dragons and other heraldry items, but in terms of historical weaponry, he might not have noticed the difference on the miniatures and their unit names.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Con
Ireland
Dublin
flag msg tools
badge
Penny of king Sigtrygg II Silkbeard of Dublin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the recurved longbow thing is probably effectively canon at this point. On screen, northern Westerosi bows seem to mainly be long recurve bows, and on the page they seem to often be referred to as longbows. What we see on screen and in the models is not what we normally mean by"longbow" in English, but this is a fictional world, the bows are long, and the author can make words mean whatever he likes.

Edit: The bows on the models look about 5 feet to me, which should be enough to qualify as being long. See Wikipedia on the English Longbow for example.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oak Wolf
msg tools
mbmb
The bows are too short on the miniatures (they loose arrows from the kneeling position?). Look for images of long bows (actual or historical). You are correct in that they can use any word they want in a fantasy world.

I also don't mind if Starks uses "recurve long bows", but if that's the case, make them take a proper stance and the bow with a proper lenght.

The reason why i hope for them to be more precise and just call them "bowmen" is that it'll allow them to give true "longbows" as we know them to another House or unit that should be more focused on ranged tactics (Brotherhood?)

P.S you'll find that the japanese "yumi" longbow is interesting in that it does allow to shoot with a knee down better than the typical English one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Voy-tak Krawomms
Germany
Köln
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I simply love these kind of geeky discussions.
In a world where dragons and zombies, sry whitewalkers, are present to start a discussion about the historical accuracy of the bows is just...
<3 <3 <3
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oak Wolf
msg tools
mbmb
http://warandplague.weebly.com/the-100-years-war.html

Oh come on i love zombies like the next geek, but i'd prefer the game to have a real longbowmen unit.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric B
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe they just didn't want to use long thin plastic for the bows that would be more prone to breakage? I agree though, if that were the case they should have just left them named "bowmen" or something. Stop with the false advertising!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Han Solo
msg tools
So you're the expert on what's considered a longbow in westeros?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oak Wolf
msg tools
mbmb
And you're really contributing.

If they call this a longbow, and they ever want to put an actual longbow in the game, how are they going to be called? Ultrabows?

Who knows what is a longbow for that fantastic setting, but if you don't see my point by looking at a longbow, and the unit they posted, then you just won't no matter how many words i use.

Edited for politeness
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Igor Persin
Croatia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Voy_tak wrote:
I simply love these kind of geeky discussions.
In a world where dragons and zombies, sry whitewalkers, are present to start a discussion about the historical accuracy of the bows is just...
<3 <3 <3


Might as well give swordsman daggers, since size doesnt matter.
Helebards might be just Spears, because who are we to call it otherwise.
Does cavlary even need horses?
7 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Voy-tak Krawomms
Germany
Köln
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
smurfORnot wrote:
Voy_tak wrote:
I simply love these kind of geeky discussions.
In a world where dragons and zombies, sry whitewalkers, are present to start a discussion about the historical accuracy of the bows is just...
<3 <3 <3



Does cavlary even need horses?


Nope, they can ride huge lizards. Or worms. Or rabbits!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Han Solo
msg tools
Sybaris wrote:
And you're really contributing.

If they call this a longbow, and they ever want to put an actual longbow in the game, how are they going to be called? Ultrabows?

Who knows what is a longbow for that fantastic setting, but if you don't see my point by looking at a longbow, and the unit they posted, then you just won't no matter how many words i use.

Edited for politeness

What is your point again? Because all I see is someone nitpicking over the way some little plastic men look for a game...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nevertellmetheodds wrote:
Sybaris wrote:
And you're really contributing.

If they call this a longbow, and they ever want to put an actual longbow in the game, how are they going to be called? Ultrabows?

Who knows what is a longbow for that fantastic setting, but if you don't see my point by looking at a longbow, and the unit they posted, then you just won't no matter how many words i use.

Edited for politeness

What is your point again? Because all I see is someone nitpicking over the way some little plastic men look for a game...


I think everyone interested in this game cares what the little plastic men look like. Isn't that part of the appeal? If we're suddenly going to claim we don't care what the little plastic men look like, it makes having the Ice & Fire theme a bit redundant.

On a purely practical level WYSIWYG is very useful in a war game. It's nice to see a unit's loadout reflected in the sculpts. It makes it easier to see what you're up against and plan accordingly. Longbows are likely to have different rules (power and range) than short bows, so if a game has both and they all look the same on the field you might be in for a nasty surprise during a game.

GRRM is approving everything (so I guess he's nitpicking for us), and I suspect these are either pre-approval renders, or else the names of the units might change.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew M
United States
New Haven
Connecticut
flag msg tools
admin
8/8 FREE, PROTECTED
badge
513ers Assemble!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Antagonistic, insulting, or otherwise disruptive comments ARE NOT welcome here.

Please use the icon when you see disruptive or antagonistic comments or any other violations of the Community Rules. This serves two purposes:

1- using the icon will bring that post to the attention of forum moderators so they can deal with it appropriately. We prefer that you not respond to the post directly. Responding invites the offender to continue, and if you respond aggressively you may end up dragging yourself down with the offender.

2- if enough users flag a post using the icon then that post will be hidden from general view, preventing others from being exposed to it.

Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oak Wolf
msg tools
mbmb
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
Nevertellmetheodds wrote:
Sybaris wrote:
And you're really contributing.

If they call this a longbow, and they ever want to put an actual longbow in the game, how are they going to be called? Ultrabows?

Who knows what is a longbow for that fantastic setting, but if you don't see my point by looking at a longbow, and the unit they posted, then you just won't no matter how many words i use.

Edited for politeness

What is your point again? Because all I see is someone nitpicking over the way some little plastic men look for a game...


I think everyone interested in this game cares what the little plastic men look like. Isn't that part of the appeal? If we're suddenly going to claim we don't care what the little plastic men look like, it makes having the Ice & Fire theme a bit redundant.

On a purely practical level WYSIWYG is very useful in a war game. It's nice to see a unit's loadout reflected in the sculpts. It makes it easier to see what you're up against and plan accordingly. Longbows are likely to have different rules (power and range) than short bows, so if a game has both and they all look the same on the field you might be in for a nasty surprise during a game.

GRRM is approving everything (so I guess he's nitpicking for us), and I suspect these are either pre-approval renders, or else the names of the units might change.


In complete agreement.

For some it might be useless, but it is in those details that a fantastic universe is brought to life...or at least is deep enough that suspension of disbelief occurs.

A song of ice and fire is not a highly fantasty universe, at least compared to Warcraft, DND or other of the like. It is closer to Tolkien's Middle Earth, imho, and we probably can all agree that Tolkien was quite precise in his descriptions.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Mościcki
msg tools
Where is Ishtar's nipple??!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To all those sarcastic comments believing to be smart, GRRM famously is big about realism in everything. Even for dragons, he famously stated that they have only two feet like in the series - rather than typical fantasy canon of four legs and a pair of wings - as no vertebrae has that combination of limbs.

It is a setting in which unarmoured master fighter has no chance against an armoured knight contrary to popular tropes, uncommonly realistic in its description of war and fights. We'll have to wait for the books to be completed to be sure, but it is very likely that behind all those detailed genology trees is carefully layed out mendelean genetics at work.

This really is a very low fantasy world fleshed out to no lesser degree than Middle-Earth, albeit in a different way, and among the fans of the novels at least, is largely valued because of it.

I understand that there is a large section of populace, especially among show-only fans, who couldn't care less, but there is likewise a large one which do - just like some people hate stupid battle rules for destroying suspension of disbelief.

The sarcastic argument about 'a fantasy world with dragons' may work for Harry Potter, but here it demonstrates only complete misunderstanding about the surce material. This is a real world, with real people rather than a fantasy realm with fantasy civilisation, and that's an almost direct quote from Martin himself.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Voy-tak Krawomms
Germany
Köln
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
schizoferret wrote:

It is a setting in which unarmoured master fighter has no chance against an armoured knight...


- Bronn against Vardis Egen during the trail by combat on the Eyrie.
- Syrio Forel, no armor, just armed with a wooden training sword takes down 4 guards.

Over!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When you create a world, you give it an internal logic. In most cases that internal logic reflects the real world, because people instantly understand the core laws, and they don't have to "learn" everything they already take for granted. There is gravity, water is wet, there are clouds in the sky, humans breathe oxygen. It allows the audience to become immediately immersed without saying, "hold on," every few minutes.

The Walking Dead has zombies strolling around. Most certainly not a factual setting. But it would raise an eyebrow if Carl suddenly flew into the air to escape a zombie, or Glenn transformed into a car.

Lord of the Rings is a fantasy setting, but people don't keep walking if they stroll off the edge of a cliff, a sword is a long, pointy piece of metal, and horses have four legs.

If something happens that doesn't tie into the world you've created, you jar the audience, snapping them back into reality. As a creator, your aim is to do that... well... never. Otherwise you end up with a Hershel's shotgun moment.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric B
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Voy_tak wrote:
schizoferret wrote:

It is a setting in which unarmoured master fighter has no chance against an armoured knight...


- Bronn against Vardis Egen during the trail by combat on the Eyrie.
- Syrio Forel, no armor, just armed with a wooden training sword takes down 4 guards.

Over!


Don't forget Jorah Mormont vs Qotho, Khal Drogo's Bloodrider
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oak Wolf
msg tools
mbmb
It's great to see that i am not alone in this. Mind me, i wish this game to succeed, i enjoy the setting alot, and it's the attention to small details that, when added together, make things from normal to amazing.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Mościcki
msg tools
Where is Ishtar's nipple??!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bronn was armoured, just not full plate - good catch though. This scene served to establish Bronn's reputation by the incredible nature of his feat.

Sylvio is a bit of a special case. I don't remember how descriptive was the encounter in the books - how exactly he did dispose with the guards. My understanding was that that part was over before the guards realised that there is a fight (which of course is the best way of winning) and the whole point was the build up to Trant entering the fray exactly to stress the importance of armour. Technically oof course we don't really know how it went, so while few people have doubts, it doesn't prove anything. I will concur however that Sylvio would probably beat the guards even if they approached him with caution, but only because guards weren't fully armoured.

This reminds me of the Red Viper - while eventually he died by his bravado, he did win a proper fight against a knight in full plate and a giant at that. It certainly was the most impressing feat in the books (excluding stuff that happened before the events).

I'll redact that to 'almost always' then, given the examples - fiction does indeed has some rules of its own, too. Seriously, if, as a writer, you need a guy with a stick beating someone in full plate, your best option is probably going full brasilian jujitsu - I'd say it's much more belivable than actually disarming the opponent and using their blade. Unless the stick is actually a baseball bat, you can allow the guy his best shot at your head while you wait

And either I am misremembering something, or Jorah won that fight being saved only by his plate?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
schizoferret wrote:


And either I am misremembering something, or Jorah won that fight being saved only by his plate?


I don't know how that goes in the books, but in the series it's one of my favourite moments.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The sword sticks in Jorah's armour, and then he actually uses his left arm to pin it against his side so he can leisurely open the bloodriders face. It's completely brutal, and seems incredibly believable.


Edit for spoilers.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric B
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
schizoferret wrote:
And either I am misremembering something, or Jorah won that fight being saved only by his plate?


No, you are remembering it correctly. Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant that was an opposite example where someone wearing armor beat someone without any due to the armor.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.