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Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: The rulebook is up :D rss

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Fantasy Flight Games just post a rule book (PDF format) of "Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game" on the web site.


Check out at FFG web site
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/legend-of-the...


Direct Link to Rule book
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/74/46...

Direct Link to Reference book
https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/00/10...
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Chris Berger
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Excellent work, thanks for posting this.

I get so despondent on weeks when there's no crunchy preview article. Also, plaidhat's Crystal Clans preview was late this week. I feel like I'm adrift in a sea of emptiness.

Until now, that is.
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Joel Daves
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So a single box "starter deck" is half the minimum deck size, and a single player playing with just one box is suggested to make decks with a minimum size of 30 instead of 40.. It kind of pisses me off you essentially have to buy at least two boxes just to make a legal deck. I get price points and all, but seriously, just sell a bigger package or individual clan starters.
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Dean Winchester
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cylence wrote:
So a single box "starter deck" is half the minimum deck size, and a single player playing with just one box is suggested to make decks with a minimum size of 30 instead of 40.. It kind of pisses me off you essentially have to buy at least two boxes just to make a legal deck. I get price points and all, but seriously, just sell a bigger package or individual clan starters.


This is how it is with most LCGs unfortunately.
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bamjoe wrote:
This is how it is with most LCGs unfortunately.

It wasn't like this in ANR, or in Arkham. Was it like this in AGoT? In the former two, you could build a tournament legal deck that was bad. But at least it was legal. By the sound of things, the game does have a lot of neutral cards that may have doubles. At the very least, I think players will be able to complete one set of 40 conflict cards. For the Dynasty deck though, I'm less optimistic.
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Joel Daves
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Yeah, I can't think of an LCG where I couldn't at least build a legal deck, albeit one of questionable quality. Here they're even admitting it, and with the number of clans that need content included in each release, I have a feeling it'll be at least two monthly releases before a single box player can do so. This was an opportune time for FFG to revise how they handle starters, and instead they've probably made their worst one (based off card distribution alone). Save both of us the money on unneeded duplicate cardboard and just make a bigger starter package.
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cylence wrote:
Yeah, I can't think of an LCG where I couldn't at least build a legal deck, albeit one of questionable quality. Here they're even admitting it, and with the number of clans that need content included in each release, I have a feeling it'll be at least two monthly releases before a single box player can do so.


You can build a legal deck, just not a tournament legal deck. This seems more to me FFG recognizing that the vast, vast majority of their players will never play in a tournament, and overall moving away from trying to get organized play to be a huge thing a la Magic. Those people are better served by having a variety of cards in the starter to be able to try different clans out.



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This was an opportune time for FFG to revise how they handle starters, and instead they've probably made their worst one (based off card distribution alone). Save both of us the money on unneeded duplicate cardboard and just make a bigger starter package.


I still don't get why people expect this to happen, since FFG has explicitly stated this model works well for them and they don't think another model would work better. Also, this is the same "buy-three" model as almost all of their other boxes, so it's in line with what you should expect by now. (Yes, yes, wasted cardboard... I find it mildly contradictory to complain that you have to spend more money to get more cards, and then complain that when spending that money you get even more cards than you want.)
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Jacovis
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I'm more concerned with the goofiness of putting characters into the fate deck, or whatever they called it here, conflict deck. that's a whole misleading "extra" set of cards that match the dynasty deck but with a different back, and I think playing characters from your hand in L5R is just dumb anyway. Not going to stop me from buying it, just pointing it out.

That is, they are getting away with giving us 6 of the same card, just with different deck back, in each character instance for a mechanism that would never have existed in L5R , which very much focused around working around the known element of your opponent. What's honorable about playing surprise characters into combat from your hand for every faction, any character?

Doesn't make sense at all.
 
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Chris Stevenson
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Jacovis wrote:
That is, they are getting away with giving us 6 of the same card, just with different deck back, in each character instance for a mechanism that would never have existed in L5R , which very much focused around working around the known element of your opponent. What's honorable about playing surprise characters into combat from your hand for every faction, any character?


Maybe I'm misreading you, but that's not how the conflict v. dynasty characters work. It's not the same character, just with two different backs to go in the two different decks. It's possible within the rules of the game for them to do that, I suppose, but we haven't seen any characters like that. They're completely different sets of characters.
 
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Daramere wrote:
Jacovis wrote:
That is, they are getting away with giving us 6 of the same card, just with different deck back, in each character instance for a mechanism that would never have existed in L5R , which very much focused around working around the known element of your opponent. What's honorable about playing surprise characters into combat from your hand for every faction, any character?


Maybe I'm misreading you, but that's not how the conflict v. dynasty characters work. It's not the same character, just with two different backs to go in the two different decks. It's possible within the rules of the game for them to do that, I suppose, but we haven't seen any characters like that. They're completely different sets of characters.


I get that, but the rules state that you can play a character from your hand as a duplicate of character in play, which at least implies the possibility that you can have the same character in your hand that can come through dynasty. It doesn't confirm it, but it's ffg, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Edited to add, I'm mostly annoyed at playing characters from your hand, the money grab is just par for the course and something that slightly annoys me.
 
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Idaho11 wrote:
You can build a legal deck, just not a tournament legal deck. This seems more to me FFG recognizing that the vast, vast majority of their players will never play in a tournament, and overall moving away from trying to get organized play to be a huge thing a la Magic.
Which is odd given that L5R's tournament Kotei season was the one thing that kept it afloat for so long & differentiated it from other more fly-by-night cash-grab CCGs of its day. It was never the airtight gameplay that made L5R a success, it was a combination of the dense lore & the active player community.

Not saying it can't work as a more introverted, BGG-crowd, kitchen-table-centric model, just that that approach would seem... risky.
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Joel Daves
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Idaho11 wrote:
You can build a legal deck, just not a tournament legal deck. This seems more to me FFG recognizing that the vast, vast majority of their players will never play in a tournament, and overall moving away from trying to get organized play to be a huge thing a la Magic. Those people are better served by having a variety of cards in the starter to be able to try different clans out.


It's not a "tournament legal" deck. The customization rules flat out say 40-45 cards in each Dynasty and Conflict deck. Nothing tournament related. They fudge in an "out-of-box" rule dropping it down to 30, but that's just another excuse. If one-box Jim shows up to play at his FLGS at any time before enough expansion content is released to change things, he's at a significant disadvantage to people playing with legal decks from multiple boxes. And don't suggest people will happily deconstruct their decks down to 30 to even the playing field.

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I still don't get why people expect this to happen, since FFG has explicitly stated this model works well for them and they don't think another model would work better. Also, this is the same "buy-three" model as almost all of their other boxes, so it's in line with what you should expect by now. (Yes, yes, wasted cardboard... I find it mildly contradictory to complain that you have to spend more money to get more cards, and then complain that when spending that money you get even more cards than you want.)


I didn't expect it to happen, I'm just annoyed that it didn't because their normal model fails here. And I'm not complaining about a few extra unused cards... it is all the other cardboard as well. I didn't like it with other LCGs, but doing so wasn't necessary. For L5R you can't build a legal deck without doing it.
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Jacovis wrote:
Daramere wrote:
Jacovis wrote:
That is, they are getting away with giving us 6 of the same card, just with different deck back, in each character instance for a mechanism that would never have existed in L5R , which very much focused around working around the known element of your opponent. What's honorable about playing surprise characters into combat from your hand for every faction, any character?


Maybe I'm misreading you, but that's not how the conflict v. dynasty characters work. It's not the same character, just with two different backs to go in the two different decks. It's possible within the rules of the game for them to do that, I suppose, but we haven't seen any characters like that. They're completely different sets of characters.


I get that, but the rules state that you can play a character from your hand as a duplicate of character in play, which at least implies the possibility that you can have the same character in your hand that can come through dynasty. It doesn't confirm it, but it's ffg, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Edited to add, I'm mostly annoyed at playing characters from your hand, the money grab is just par for the course and something that slightly annoys me.


Well it will only annoy you for an instant since the core set is the only product that requires a redundant purchase. That redundant purchase will be a small drop in the bucket compared to what you'll spend over the life of the game if you end up play through several cycles of the game.

I would advise if anyone is getting salty now about buying a second (or third) core set maybe think hard on whether you want to jump into an LCG. They aren't cheap. They are cheaper than hunting rares and building multiple tournament quality constructed decks in a CCG, but it's still not a budget hobby. That said it's cheaper than a lot of other hobbies. Secondary markets for LCG cards don't really exist. Promos and alt art cards do usually do appreciate in value, but most of the time you take a loss on selling your collection of regular cards. I've personally never sold any of my LCG collections.

I guess it's possible you could play a conflict version of a dynasty character from hand. We have no indication that this will be a thing in the game. We do know that different versions of the same unique character are possible. Also we do know that unique characters are in the conflict deck. I had assumed that's what they were talking about when they mentioned playing a card from hand (meaning to put fate on another copy of a unique conflict character already in play).
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I don't mind spending money. It is, however, slightly annoying to spend money on a bunch of duplicate stuff I will never use and that has basically no value. I understand why FFG does it - they want to be able to provide an enjoyable experience at a good price point for people who buy only a starter and their scale is not such that it makes sense for them to create a "tournament starter" (e.g. With 3x everything) or a special pack to add to a starter to have the same effect. However I super don't appreciate having my objections met with a condescending pat on the head and "why don't you run along and play something else."
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cferejohn wrote:
I don't mind spending money. It is, however, slightly annoying to spend money on a bunch of duplicate stuff I will never use and that has basically no value. I understand why FFG does it - they want to be able to provide an enjoyable experience at a good price point for people who buy only a starter and their scale is not such that it makes sense for them to create a "tournament starter" (e.g. With 3x everything) or a special pack to add to a starter to have the same effect. However I super don't appreciate having my objections met with a condescending pat on the head and "why don't you run along and play something else."


With each LCG the "waste" in each core has been reduced - the tokens and 10-12 game tracking cards could be considered waste but I'll speak to the "playing card waste" in particular. Android: Netrunner was by far the worst - the third core set only added a third copy of nine (9!) cards to what one had with two core sets.

Conquest's waste was the planets and the warlords mostly. IIRC, all but two cards for each faction were no singles. There were 2-3 of some neutrals in each core but they were regularly used in multiple decks so it's a bit disingenuous to call them waste.

AGOT2 had even less. Only neutrals had multiple copies. All House cards were singles.

L5R follows AGOT2's pattern. All single clan cards with 2-3 copies of neutrals for both decks.

Yes, you'll have a lot of tokens, dials, Stronghold cards, Role cards, and other things you won't dig into unless you spill a beer while playing.

But to FFG's credit - they have improved. No more $40 for 9 FLIPPIN' cards.

My two cents.

-tpl
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tobinlopes wrote:
cferejohn wrote:
I don't mind spending money. It is, however, slightly annoying to spend money on a bunch of duplicate stuff I will never use and that has basically no value. I understand why FFG does it - they want to be able to provide an enjoyable experience at a good price point for people who buy only a starter and their scale is not such that it makes sense for them to create a "tournament starter" (e.g. With 3x everything) or a special pack to add to a starter to have the same effect. However I super don't appreciate having my objections met with a condescending pat on the head and "why don't you run along and play something else."


With each LCG the "waste" in each core has been reduced - the tokens and 10-12 game tracking cards could be considered waste but I'll speak to the "playing card waste" in particular. Android: Netrunner was by far the worst - the third core set only added a third copy of nine (9!) cards to what one had with two core sets.

Conquest's waste was the planets and the warlords mostly. IIRC, all but two cards for each faction were no singles. There were 2-3 of some neutrals in each core but they were regularly used in multiple decks so it's a bit disingenuous to call them waste.

AGOT2 had even less. Only neutrals had multiple copies. All House cards were singles.

L5R follows AGOT2's pattern. All single clan cards with 2-3 copies of neutrals for both decks.

Yes, you'll have a lot of tokens, dials, Stronghold cards, Role cards, and other things you won't dig into unless you spill a beer while playing.

But to FFG's credit - they have improved. No more $40 for 9 FLIPPIN' cards.

My two cents.

-tpl

Half of a second Arkham box is waste but a least you only need two.
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I may have misread the rules - but it appears the 30 card deck out of the box is if you are making TWO DECKS and playing both against each other i.e. 2 player and using just one persons core. That implies that a single legal deck can be made - it is just not TWO legal decks simultaneously.
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EineHund wrote:
I may have misread the rules - but it appears the 30 card deck out of the box is if you are making TWO DECKS and playing both against each other i.e. 2 player and using just one persons core. That implies that a single legal deck can be made - it is just not TWO legal decks simultaneously.


Unless there are just that many neutral cards, that isn't the case because of the Dynasty cards not being able to be bought with influence, and the conflict cards being limited to 10-13 influence.
 
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EineHund wrote:
I may have misread the rules - but it appears the 30 card deck out of the box is if you are making TWO DECKS and playing both against each other i.e. 2 player and using just one persons core. That implies that a single legal deck can be made - it is just not TWO legal decks simultaneously.


I don't think you can make even one tournament legal (that is, with 40-card deck minimums) out of a core box. The problem is that there is no way to go "out of clan" for the Dynasty deck. Each clan has about 14 Dynasty cards (one copy each) and there are six neutral Dynasty cards (three copies each). So you can muster about 32 Dynasty cards for a given Clan.

(You can, barely, make a tournament legal Conflict deck out of one box, because you can use influence to bring a few cards in from out of clan)

L5R is hitting this in a way that the other games have not because, I think, you need significantly more cards to make a legal deck (87+ instead of something like 45) plus the Dynasty deck's 'clan loyalty' concept. If you only needed one 40 card deck, it would be easy to make tournament legal decks.
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I've never purchased an LCG.
How often are new expansions released?
Is there a standard retail price for expansions?
Is it certain that we will only need one copy of each expansion?

Thank you in advance.
 
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Once a month. Packs retail at $14.99, occasionally there may be a larger boxed expansion which will be more like $29.99. You're always free to skip any expansion you don't want and/or collect at your own pace.

Yes, you only need one of each expansion.
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Daramere wrote:
EineHund wrote:
I may have misread the rules - but it appears the 30 card deck out of the box is if you are making TWO DECKS and playing both against each other i.e. 2 player and using just one persons core. That implies that a single legal deck can be made - it is just not TWO legal decks simultaneously.


I don't think you can make even one tournament legal (that is, with 40-card deck minimums) out of a core box. The problem is that there is no way to go "out of clan" for the Dynasty deck. Each clan has about 14 Dynasty cards (one copy each) and there are six neutral Dynasty cards (three copies each). So you can muster about 32 Dynasty cards for a given Clan.

(You can, barely, make a tournament legal Conflict deck out of one box, because you can use influence to bring a few cards in from out of clan)

L5R is hitting this in a way that the other games have not because, I think, you need significantly more cards to make a legal deck (87+ instead of something like 45) plus the Dynasty deck's 'clan loyalty' concept. If you only needed one 40 card deck, it would be easy to make tournament legal decks.


I think it's pretty certain that you can't even use the 1x core deck building rules to play a two player game out of one box. The starter decks in the Learn to Play book seems to have even less than 30 cards in the Dynasty deck to support both players.

I think more than any other LCG you need 2x cores here to play, and you almost certainly are gonna want 3x to be at all flexible with your deck building in the core only environment. Makes me worry about the core set selling out really fast for it's first printing.

ADD: To be clear it seems like all clan cards are a 1x include based on everything we know. That's 14 dynasty cards and 9 conflict cards for each of 7 factions. That's 161 singletons you get for each core. Certainly worth it to buy a full set of 3 core sets if you can afford it. I think we 3x core sets you end up with something like 130 redundant cards. That said most of those are neutrals and provinces and you can use those to construct multiple decks at the same time so it's only sort of redundant. They aren't completely useless. If you build carefully you can probably construct 3 decks at the same time with 3x cores and have a reasonable amount of freedom.
 
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