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Thanks to Jorune for ultimately being the one that helped me realize the main cost-mistake I made.

And I have math to back me up... to some degree. Since I don't have an answer about the dimensions of the 7th Continent box I'll satisfy myself by using, instead, one of the largest board games: Gloomhaven

Gloomhaven has a cubic footage of under 1, and a weight of about 20 pounds.

A 40 foot shipping container costs about $1K to get from China to the USA.

More than 2300 copies(assuming max packing) could fit in a 40 foot container. If we give an allowance for the over-packaging it was shipped with, and pallet size, and other stuff I don't have math for, and say only half-that fits in a container, that's still $1 per unit to get it from China to the USA, for Gloomhaven.

So yeah, 7th Continent charging $20 for shipping within the USA and then using the absolute worst shipping service within the country seems suspect to me. Either the US distributor is pocketing a lot of money, Serious Poulp is, or... I can't really come up with a third option, because $20 is just too much when, presumably, 7th Continent would fit in a large Flat Rate Box.

And I'm not even a backer myself, I just find this bizarre.

Edit: More math, based on the pictures of the pallets in the USA shipping center looking like they hold 36 boxes per pallet. Unknown how many games are in a box but if we assume one game per box, that comes out to(I did more math) 756 games per 40 foot shipping container. A little bit over $1 per unit. At two or more games per box it goes back under $1 per unit to get the games from China to the USA, thus continuing the trend of "holy hell, why is it shipping via FedEx SmartPost for $20?!"

Edit 2: More math;
The cost of transporting a 40 foot shipping container 300 miles is about $780. The ship docked in Houston then 7th Continent was trucked to Dallas. That makes less than 300 miles.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Maybe, just maybe, there are costs you haven't accounted for.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Jasiven wrote:

And I'm not even a backer myself, I just find this bizarre.


Why would you even try to prove that $20 shipping is too much? It's obvious for anyone who is not interested in demagogy and demanding evidence to just claim the opposite (=whatever they believe in). Shipping is just another way to get you money. And it doesn't matter whos pocket they lie in.
 
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Helikoputtrik wrote:
Maybe, just maybe, there are costs you haven't accounted for.
Let me account for some more, then.

The cost of transporting a 40 foot shipping container 300 miles is about $780.

The ship docked in Houston then 7th Continent was trucked to Dallas. That makes less than 300 miles. At 3 units per box, that's still under $1 per unit. At 2, it's under $2 per unit, and at 1 unit per box it's still pretty messed up.
 
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Considering you didn't back the game, you seem to be really concerned about what others spent on the shipping.

Do a Kickstarter and go through the whole shipping process. So many, many costs...
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Diederik wrote:
Are you serious?
You sound like a spoiled kid that doesn't know mathematics...

I do not think you have any idea what logistics cost. Shipping costs are only a part of it... So your math is completely wrong.
Apart from that, most people in the world pay more than $20 for shipping every time they order a game. It's not because you do not have to pay for shipping most of the time, that $20 is a lot of money for shipping...


The complaint is about it using FedEx SmartPost for that $20. The cheapest, shittiest, slower option.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Diederik wrote:
Jasiven wrote:
Diederik wrote:
Are you serious?
You sound like a spoiled kid that doesn't know mathematics...

I do not think you have any idea what logistics cost. Shipping costs are only a part of it... So your math is completely wrong.
Apart from that, most people in the world pay more than $20 for shipping every time they order a game. It's not because you do not have to pay for shipping most of the time, that $20 is a lot of money for shipping...
The complaint is about it using FedEx SmartPost for that $20. The cheapest, shittiest, slower option.
I'm sure Serious Poulp did the math themselves and choose FedEx for a reason.
And I question that reason with as much knowledge as I currently have.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
I wonder why you rated the game an 8 when you dont own it and presumably never played and/or finished it? Just doing the math, that changes the rating and makes the rating shittier, ie less trusted
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Make no mistake...any company that ships something...skims off some of the shipping costs as profit. WHAT THE MARGINS ARE VARY BUT THEY DO IT!
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Herr von Ragend wrote:
I wonder why you rated the game an 8 when you dont own it and presumably never played and/or finished it? Just doing the math, that changes the rating and makes the rating shittier, ie less trusted
Are you unaware of the Print'n'Play?
 
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Diederik wrote:
ahkaiser wrote:
Make no mistake...any company that ships something...skims off some of the shipping costs as profit. WHAT THE MARGINS ARE VARY BUT THEY DO IT!


If a gaming company is shipping the games themselves, they have to stock their games, then put them in packages and ship them. Employees do not work for free. So unless you call "paying wages" and "paying warehouse costs" profit, I do not think most companies are even able to take profit out of the shipping part. And if they do, it'll be very little.

If they do not ship the games themselves, because they lack the time, space or other resources, then the shipping process is even more expensive.

I'm under the impression that a lot of people seriously underestimate the actual costs of logistics.
In this case, we're lead to believe there will be no warehousing and that it's all down to shipping. Also, warehousing costs and employee wages generally come from the price of the item, not the shipping charge.

Why... why do you keep saying "logistics is expensive" as a response to this, when logistics-costs are generally known to come out of the price of the item?
 
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Based on my own independent research FedEx Smart Post has a PDF/Excel chart of the shipping charges on their site for all zones and rates delivered.

http://www.fedex.com/us/smartpostguide/smartpost/smartpost_r...

In a previous post someone mentioned the box was 3.380 kg which translates into 7.45 pounds. Since Smart Post charges different prices based on distance from the shipping point (rounded up), the rate for an 8 pound box is $9.38 to $33.61. If we just assume the average based on this chart, and we even exclude the remote options of Hawaii, Alaska, P.R, etc. that gets us to around $11.50.

Finally, you're not taking into account that shipments for the US/Central America/and South America are ALL being distributed from Dallas, TX. If we assume that shipping costs had to be estimated based on the zone shipping and that international shipping of a 7 pound box from the US is quite a bit more than $20, everyone likely paid a estimated average cost of delivery based on the zoning of the delivery.

I did not look into the other regions of shipping since you're focused on the Smart Post shipping alone but I can easily see that the games are not being distributed out of each country where there is a backer, but from a single distribution center in that region.

SP has been amazing during this entire campaign about visibility and communication. Creators who treat their customers with respect are not, in my opinion, out to screw backers over. I, for one, think that even if we did overpay for shipping (which I do NOT) that I would have gladly paid upwards of $150 for this game given the unique artwork and 1,200 cards included in my explorer pledge.

If this isn't how you feel then it's probably best you save yourself a lot of mental anguish (which you clearly have about KS) and take a hard pass. The world will not end if you miss one game that you may be interested in.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Jasiven wrote:
Herr von Ragend wrote:
I wonder why you rated the game an 8 when you dont own it and presumably never played and/or finished it? Just doing the math, that changes the rating and makes the rating shittier, ie less trusted
Are you unaware of the Print'n'Play?

Please tell me you didn't rate a game with 1000+ cards on the basis of a PNP with 17 cards. That's like rating a film on the basis of its trailer.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Ren3 wrote:
Jasiven wrote:
Herr von Ragend wrote:
I wonder why you rated the game an 8 when you dont own it and presumably never played and/or finished it? Just doing the math, that changes the rating and makes the rating shittier, ie less trusted
Are you unaware of the Print'n'Play?

Please tell me you didn't rate a game with 1000+ cards on the basis of a PNP with 17 cards. That's like rating a film on the basis of its trailer.


This.
 
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Just wanted say I paid twice what you did in postage and I have actually played the game for 10hrs now and it's well worth the price.

Also as a KS this is a crowd funded project so trying to throw around American correct consumer/proprietor practice is just totally off point, because it's a crowd funded project from Europe . $20 is accurate because it's shipping and handling, not just shipping. Now across 4 threads you have dismissed several people who have said this, as YOU believe that any sort of handling/packaging, also shipping from China, just simply do not count (what?!) .

Also a word about disruption which I only know about because of how many friendly and professional KS creators have been so informative and transparent about the process. So the factories in China don't individually package everyone's orders they send them in bulk on the ship this keeps overall shipping cheap also as they are in pallets. So here goes

1.games packed on at factory pallets
2.pallets transported onto ship
3.ship transports to country destination
4.pallets unloaded off of ship at Port
5.pallets transported to distribution centre
6.pallets unpacked at distribution centre
7.all individual boxes be sorted into orders then repacked in card board boxes with bubble wrap and / or packing peanuts. All these boxes need to be order and sorted by states and labels etc.
8.all boxes shipped individually to you via courier

Now their choice of Fed Ex could have been for many reasons, maybe timing wise for pick up it worked better or they are willing to do something other couriers won't. Maybe they have a better insurance policy or a lower likely hood of error/ damaged goods.

I also can't believe you would compare this small start up company to Amazon a huge multinational corporation that makes its money by pushing the profit margin down and selling in bulk. Or any other well established large company that makes its profits on bulk selling at a small margin.

Also printing 1200 cards that have different backs and fronts and are all unique is very expensive. Which is why your gloomhaven analogy falls flat because even though gloomhaven was heavier and bigger a large amount of card backs on decks are exactly the same which is less labour intensive at the factory as far as calibration etc goes. More stuff does not always equal more money into production.

And this is why I have a copy of the game and you don't. Its a great game BTW and you will have to wait much longer and pay more than I did in the end as it's not available at retail so good luck with that
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Hi guys,

As much as I LOVE conversations like these I'm just going to have to point a few things out:

The base price of shipping was $13 or $16 if you took the Explorer pledge, not $20.

Now that should be enough but, just incase: It's all very good to take into account the freight shipping but you're forgetting a LOT of other elements such as what Mike said above.

Finally, SP didn't choose Smartpost, the fulfiller did. Said Fulfiller has had no issues with Smartpost so I'm sure SP saw no reason not to use them.

I don't want to have a go at you but please get your facts straight before posting thise kind of message. It's not good for anyone involved and only fosters distrust between creators and a community that since the beginning has been very open and trusting of one another.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Jasiven wrote:

Why... why do you keep saying "logistics is expensive" as a response to this, when logistics-costs are generally known to come out of the price of the item?


In the several posts you mentioned you keep on insisting this. That all costs but shipping itself are charged to the cost of the game. Even though you may do that, no one is forced to do so.

Specially when many costs are location dependent: import taxes in eu are different from us, as are warehouse, costs of boxes, handling, and many things I do am not even aware of. Why are those variable costs oncluded in the cost of the base game? Can you give a reference of "generally known" facts? And that SP follows that approach?

 
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Pointless discussion started by someone who isn't even paying shipping because he didn't kickstart it.

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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Are there sour grapes on the 7th Continent?
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Since you're so good at math
Could you math out how come some shipping rates in the USA are free for ks backers?
Are there elves that do all the domestic shipping for free? Is that their destiny? Or do the games magically appear at someone's doorsteps without a delivery company?

In short, shipping rates are whatever the company wants to charge
Some feel like absorbing it, some feel like charging more (very likely not to cheat anyone's money but to cover all basis for themselves so that they don't lose money)
As long as it was advertised before the fact and you knew the price going in, I don't think it's anything worth discussing about. Not happy about it, don't back it don't pay it. A lot of people were happy to pay it so I don't see why you have to come round and make a fuss about it esp when you didn't pay a single dime of it
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Being a Canadian, I'd love to be able to complain about $20 shipping charges, but in fact that would be a steal over here. I don't think that is unreasonable at all.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Did I just walk under a bridge? I smell a troll.

I AM a backer and I made a choice. I chose to back AND I chose to agree to pay $20 for shipping. I appreciate your concern for my well-being but somehow I think there's more to this. A gripe perhaps? An anti-KS bias?

I think that Serious Poulp has learned a lot from this campaign and if the $20 I paid for shipping provided the buffer they needed, I'm happy to do that. For many first time companies they don't work out the small costs and a few dollars "profit" on the shipping is the difference between them paying their bills and getting product to backers and not. I definitely would lean towards making sure that buffer exists.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Yet another inane thread started by this person to stir things up. The topics may seem to vary somewhat but the purpose is the same.
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Bud, you don't need to start a new thread every time you think of something different. This topic was already being discussed, then you started a new thread to ask how much the game cost and weighed, then you started this thread to talk about a financial "injustice" you aren't experiencing, after already having started a thread months ago about a financial "injustice" you might experience were you to buy the game second hand.

Really? shake
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Re: As a not-a-backer, I'm disappointed that shipping in the USA was $20 and is using FedEx SmartPost
Jasiven wrote:
Herr von Ragend wrote:
I wonder why you rated the game an 8 when you dont own it and presumably never played and/or finished it? Just doing the math, that changes the rating and makes the rating shittier, ie less trusted
Are you unaware of the Print'n'Play?

To be fair, you didn't rate the PnP.
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