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Subject: Signature timing rss

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Adrian Egloff
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I know, that the Signature can used once per Activation/turn.

How's the timing?

Is it allowed to use the "Encharter" Signature from the battle Wizard during combat AFTER rolling the Dice(-s)?
For example, when i roll a Diamond can i activate the Signature or before rolling?

Thanks
Adrian
 
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Stephan Beal
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Swissorcapin wrote:
I know, that the Signature can used once per Activation/turn.

How's the timing?

Is it allowed to use the "Encharter" Signature from the battle Wizard during combat AFTER rolling the Dice(-s)?
For example, when i roll a Diamond can i activate the Signature or before rolling?


The book unfortunately doesn't say so but i believe the answer is "yes, he may decide to use it after rolling a diamond." Justification: if not, then it will be useless 84% of the time (assuming 1 red die). That would be severely frustrating and under-powered compared to all other Signatures, which "just work".
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Alex Russo
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sgbeal wrote:
Swissorcapin wrote:
I know, that the Signature can used once per Activation/turn.

How's the timing?

Is it allowed to use the "Encharter" Signature from the battle Wizard during combat AFTER rolling the Dice(-s)?
For example, when i roll a Diamond can i activate the Signature or before rolling?


The book unfortunately doesn't say so but i believe the answer is "yes, he may decide to use it after rolling a diamond." Justification: if not, then it will be useless 84% of the time (assuming 1 red die). That would be severely frustrating and under-powered compared to all other Signatures, which "just work".


thats my take on it.
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Adrian Egloff
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Thanks a lot!meeple
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The rule actually is clear here, and Stephen's interpretation is otherwise correct. The timing of Signature Skills is exactly the same as any other Skill. The difference with a Signature Skill is only that you must pay the XP when you activate it, and you can only activate it once per activation.

So in the Enchanter case, the Skill is an "Attack OR Defense <diamond>" Skill. It can be activated only when you have already rolled a diamond while attacking or defending and you have 1 XP to spend.
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Stephan Beal
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Clipper wrote:
The rule actually is clear here, and Stephen's interpretation is otherwise correct. The timing of Signature Skills is exactly the same as any other Skill.


Citation needed?
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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sgbeal wrote:
Citation needed?

The Signature description itself:
MD Rules (p27) wrote:
Read the Signature’s description to know the condition and game
effects to apply.


The conditions provide the timing, and the only further restrictions are that you have the XP to spend and you only use it once total per activation.
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Stephan Beal
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Clipper wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
Citation needed?

The Signature description itself:
MD Rules (p27) wrote:
Read the Signature’s description to know the condition and game
effects to apply.


The conditions provide the timing, and the only further restrictions are that you have the XP to spend and you only use it once total per activation.


And that's where the ambiguity comes in: "Attack" doesn't inherently imply during or before or after, leaving us to wonder which of those it is.

To be clear, i agree with you about the timing, but i disagree that the rules are clear/unambiguous regarding that timing (or that they even make any mention of it).
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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We can surmise the timing. Firstly, no timing restriction is given except:
MD Rules p53 wrote:
Attack: Must be performing any type of Attack Action.

Secondly, we have Skills that flip dice and also Skills like: "Magic: +1 Hit OR +1 Bam". Should you be making those choices when you declare the Attack? Surely not!

Thus, the only timing decision that makes any sense is that you can choose when you activate the abilities throughout the timing window of the Skill, which is any time during the Attack according to the above definition of the "Attack:" restriction.

I also agree that the rules do not specify this directly. But by not specifying anything, they end up being clear as any other assumption you can make does not make sense if applied to other Skills.
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Doctor Bandage
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The signature requires a diamond, which can only happen when resolving an attack. How could you use it before or after an attack or defense?
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Eric B
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DoctorBandage wrote:
The signature requires a diamond, which can only happen when resolving an attack. How could you use it before or after an attack or defense?


I think he means you would state you are going to use the ability before you roll, and if you get the diamond it works and if not it fails.
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Doctor Bandage
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deathleech wrote:
I think he means you would state you are going to use the ability before you roll, and if you get the diamond it works and if not it fails.


That would be bloody miserable.
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Frank Hoffmann
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I have a totally different understanding, regarding the activation time.
Activating the signature is an action, so you cannot activate the signature while you are performing a different action, e.g. combat. The only action to be performed while you are performing an action is the transmute action.
Rules p 27 wrote:
Transmute can be done in the middle of a Trade Action, without interrupting the Trade.

So you have to activate your signature in advance of a combat action.

I really want to read what Doctor Bandage and Clipper say about this.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Some signatures are Combat Skills or Enchantments, thus they do not make sense as Actions.

What the Action list is saying is SOME Signatures are Actions and can be taken with the Signature Action. Other Signatures may use different timings.

If the Enchantment ones were actions, then the Bonecrusher Signature makes zero sense:

"[Spend 1 XP] During this Turn, the Hero gets "Attack: +1 Hit and Defense: -1 Shield ""

If the other Combat Skill abilities are also until the end of the turn, then why isn't this one just written as "[Spend 1 XP] Attack: +1 Hit and Defense: -1 Shield"
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Frank Hoffmann
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Thx Clipper. You convinced me.
 
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