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Subject: What counts as "you kill an enemy on your turn" (item 102 spoiler) rss

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Ben Ackland
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Our vermling has item 102 - necklace of teeth. It causes you to heal when "you kill an enemy on your turn".

What counts as "you kill an enemy"?
If a summon kills an enemy, does the vermling heal? (Or the summon?)
If a mind controlled enemy kills a creature, does the vermling heal?
 
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Nicholas
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Your summons turn is not your turn. The summon doesn't have the item. -> no one heals.

If you mind control someone and kill someone with him, it's you.
 
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David desJardins
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If your summon kills an enemy on your turn then that counts as you killing the enemy on your turn. Of course, if your summon kills an enemy on its turn then that's not killing it on your turn.

If you push an enemy onto a trap which kills it that also counts as you killing the enemy.

These are stated in the FAQ (although you have to search to find them).
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Justin Boehm
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Nicholas M wrote:
Your summons turn is not your turn. The summon doesn't have the item. -> no one heals.

If you mind control someone and kill someone with him, it's you.

Yes and ... kind of yes.

Answer 1 is correct.

Answer 2 is correct in terms of credit for the kill of you FORCE an enemy to attack another enemy, with you controlling it, however you would still not get the heal.

Also be aware if you ALLOW and ally to perform an attack, with them controlling the action, they get credit for the kill.

Basically, you don't heal unless your MT personally performs the attack.

And you only get credit for a kill if your MT controls that attack(or your summon kills something).
 
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David desJardins
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Gambit001 wrote:
Basically, you don't heal unless your MT personally performs the attack.


Huh? Says who?
 
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David Latimore
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Gambit001 wrote:
Nicholas M wrote:
Your summons turn is not your turn. The summon doesn't have the item. -> no one heals.

If you mind control someone and kill someone with him, it's you.

Yes and ... kind of yes.

Answer 1 is correct.

Answer 2 is correct in terms of credit for the kill of you FORCE an enemy to attack another enemy, with you controlling it, however you would still not get the heal.

Also be aware if you ALLOW and ally to perform an attack, with them controlling the action, they get credit for the kill.

Basically, you don't heal unless your MT personally performs the attack.

And you only get credit for a kill if your MT controls that attack(or your summon kills something).
There's no reason for it to be different for personal quests vs item triggers. It needlessly overcomplicates things. If you control something else to make it kill something else, it counts as you killing it.
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Justin Boehm
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Just because there's no reason in your opinion for it to be different, doesn't mean that it isn't, however, even though I don't believe the intention is to heal yourself with a necklace you are wearing when something else kills an enemy, I can see where you both are coming from. One of the weird things where I'd like to hear from Isaac to confirm, as well as know why it is one way or the other.

Plus I can see this going either way, as I know there are something things in the game that sacrifice theme/logic for less rules being needed.
 
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David desJardins
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The FAQ says you're considered to kill something if you cause your summon to kill it, cause it to move onto a trap that kills it, etc. There's no ambiguity or "weirdness" here at all. You can try to get Isaac to repeat what he already said, I guess.
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Wes Holland

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alphasquid wrote:
Gambit001 wrote:
Nicholas M wrote:
Your summons turn is not your turn. The summon doesn't have the item. -> no one heals.

If you mind control someone and kill someone with him, it's you.

Yes and ... kind of yes.

Answer 1 is correct.

Answer 2 is correct in terms of credit for the kill of you FORCE an enemy to attack another enemy, with you controlling it, however you would still not get the heal.

Also be aware if you ALLOW and ally to perform an attack, with them controlling the action, they get credit for the kill.

Basically, you don't heal unless your MT personally performs the attack.

And you only get credit for a kill if your MT controls that attack(or your summon kills something).
There's no reason for it to be different for personal quests vs item triggers. It needlessly overcomplicates things. If you control something else to make it kill something else, it counts as you killing it.


Uh, that was one of the first questions I'd asked, I thought the resolution was: Whoever actually hits them counts as dealing the killing blow. So the Mindthief Possession ability actually does *not* count as a kill for himself, unless he used it on a summon of his own. For Traps, it only counts as a kill credit if you forced-movement onto the Trap...

At least that's what I remember.
 
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Nathan Stiles
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alphasquid wrote:
There's no reason for it to be different for personal quests vs item triggers. It needlessly overcomplicates things. If you control something else to make it kill something else, it counts as you killing it.


According to Isaac, the person that lands the blow gets the credit. Not the person that controls the attacker.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25008754#25008754

Of course Issac also says that if your wound kills a monster no one gets the credit, and we house ruled that as it made no sense to us. If I used a card, and that card did the last point of damage, it seems that I should get the credit for personal goals.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25213787#25213787
 
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Trang VP
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There's plenty of threads/rules about kill credit for the purpose of battle goals/personal quests, many of which are already mentioned here. I would have thought that this item is exactly the same, except (and only except) for the extra requirement that it happens during your turn.

That would rule out things like summons acting during its own turn, any kills resulting from retaliate, and you performing an attack on another character's turn due to their ability card. But for any kills that happen during your turn, there's nothing to indicate it would be different from normal kill credit rules.

As for wounds, whether or not we're using the house rule that wounds give kill credit wouldn't affect this item. Wound damage occurs on the monster's turn and never during your turn.
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Justin Boehm
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So I got confirmation from Isaac, and was partly wrong. If you control the attack, you get the credit, so if it says "with you controlling the attack/action", then you get credit for the kill if the figure you control kills an enemy, which is the part I already knew. Also, where I was wrong, the Necklace of Teeth does heal you if you control an enemy and it kills another enemy, but not if you "give an ally Attack X", and they kill something, because that is their kill and not yours.
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Maurice Oksman
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Gambit001 wrote:
So I got confirmation from Isaac, and was partly wrong. If you control the attack, you get the credit, so if it says "with you controlling the attack/action", then you get credit for the kill if the figure you control kills an enemy, which is the part I already knew. Also, where I was wrong, the Necklace of Teeth does heal you if you control an enemy and it kills another enemy, but not if you "give an ally Attack X", and they kill something, because that is their kill and not yours.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Beast Tyrant + Neclace of Teeth=Makes me look up every variation of this question every session lol


Ok..this is last time I look this up———ughhhhh!
 
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