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A Song of Ice & Fire: Tabletop Miniatures Game – Stark vs Lannister Starter Set» Forums » General

Subject: those add on prices... rss

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samir patel

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Maybe it's just because I am new to the CMON KSers.. but seriously? $150 for the pledge and over $400 in add-ons??

This game is crazy expensive..
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Anthony Burnett
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I agree. That is why I pulled my backing funds from the project altogether.

I'll wait for a retail deal. The game does not bring anything extraordinary to the table that would warrant the pricing asked for.
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Big Sixer
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Totally agree. Add to that the KS exclusives are all "resculpts" for the most part. I bowed out too.
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Jeff M
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Yep.
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Lord Silver wrote:
I'll wait for a retail deal. The game does not bring anything extraordinary to the table that would warrant the pricing asked for.
I'm really curious as to what these $30 boxes are going to end up for at retail after the KS. Because when CMON announced their MAP pricing this year the conventional wisdom was that their KS pricing would be perceived as an even better deal (not that this ASOIAF has been a typical CMON KS for sure.) But if these are $30 in the "come and get in early with KS!" phase, then I really want to know what these end up for at MM or CSI in April of 2018.

There are plenty of tabletop minis games that charge $30 for units, so that doesn't scare me as much as it apparently scares some BGG boardgamers, but if CMON is targeting a noob type of audience, then $30 for one square of samey mass-battles troops might be a tough pill for those folks to swallow.

I guess the market will decide in 2018.
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Donn Hardy
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Bigsixer wrote:
Totally agree. Add to that the KS exclusives are all "resculpts" for the most part. I bowed out too.

In all fairness, only 2 are resculpts. 1 is a unique mini (that serves no purpose in game) and the rest are alternate sculpts of unit attachments that are fully playable. I have no idea if you need extras of those particular attachments, but they ARE gameplay content.

That being said, I'm only in for $1 in order to play the Game of Comments.
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Greg
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Yeah, looks like CMON is trying to go the Games Workshop route of premium pricing for small sets of miniatures.

I don't think it's going to work out so well for them. The Warhammer style battle games aren't so popular anymore, and CMON miniatures don't have the same level of "hobby" appeal that GW minis do (can't really convert or customize them and their detail level is generally worse).

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You can also see if pledging for a second starter is better than buying add-ons. I'm not a fan of the books, so backed Reaper and Hand of Glory, for the generic fantasy miniatures I can use in Kings of War, RPGs, boardgames, and miniature skirmish wargames. Not in any hurry to pick up proprietary miniatures for a lifestyle game.
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samir patel

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the numbers seem to indicate that buying 2 base sets, (+) terrain is a much better deal
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John Middleton
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Glic2003 wrote:

Yeah, looks like CMON is trying to go the Games Workshop route of premium pricing for small sets of miniatures.

I don't think it's going to work out so well for them. The Warhammer style battle games aren't so popular anymore, and CMON miniatures don't have the same level of "hobby" appeal that GW minis do (can't really convert or customize them and their detail level is generally worse).



With GW you are paying for premium quality miniatures though with tons of customization options.


Also, the only thing I see being played with regularity, aside from an occasional Armada game or Flames of War, is Warhammer 40K.

The new edition really kicked the game into the spotlight again. AoS is also gaining lots of ground, especially on the tournament scene.

Oddly, there is also a pretty good core of Hail Caesar and Black Powder players. Seems once you get some WWII, other historicals start to look cool.

X-Wing seems to be league and tournament only now. I never see casual games. And Runewars....I can't even bribe people to play. In fact the last time I tried to play Runewars, my opponent saw my painted 28mm AWI Black Powder and wanted to play that instead, which is actually sorta cool.
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Nicolas Tremblay
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You're not meant to buy every single thing.

This isn't a boardgame.

You buy the additional units you want in your army.

Look at any popular mass-miniatures game, these prices are average-to-low in comparison.

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Frank Lee

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I don't know what I did to make the Perry Brothers love me, but I cannot get their website to charge me regular industry prices for their minis. Hopefully the checkout cart has a tip option to allow me to make up for the difference. I also tried Mantic's website, same thing there! It will not charge $3 a mini no matter how many times I try. I hope tech support clears this up once they get back on Monday.
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Eric B
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basm4 wrote:
the numbers seem to indicate that buying 2 base sets, (+) terrain is a much better deal


It's definitely a better deal to buy two pledges vs a bunch of extra unit add-ons. With 2 pledges you spend $300 and get:

4x Stark Sworn Swords
4x Stark Sworn Sword Captains
4x Stark Sworn Sword Bannermen
2x Umber Berserkers
2x Umber Champion
2x Umber Berserker Bannermen
2x Stark Outriders
2x Stark Longbowmen

4x Lannister Guards
4x Lannister Guard Captains
4x Lannister Bannermen
2x Lannister Halberdiers
2x Lannister Assault Veterans
2x Lannister Halberdier Bannerman
2x Mountains Men
2x Mountain's Men Bannermen
2x Knights of Casterly Rock

2x Bolton Bastard's Girls


To get that with one pledge you would need to spend $150 on the pledge, then buy:

2x Stark Sworn Swords ($60)
1x Stark Outriders ($30)
1x Umber Beserkers ($30)
1x Stark Longbowmen ($30)
2x Lannister Guards ($60)
1x Lannister Halberdiers ($30)
1x Mountain's Men ($30)
1x Knights of Casterly Rock ($30)
1x Bolton Bastard's Girls ($30)

That comes out to be another $330, plus the $150 for the starter, so $480 vs $300. Even if you ONLY bought one side, it would still be $180+150= $330. Keep in mind two pledges also gives tons of other extras like named characters, captains, bannermen, etc. Surely you can sell the duplicates of those from a second pledge to make back some of the money.The only time buying individual units would be better is if you want an army comprised mainly of one type (like a ton of Knights of Casterly Rock).
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John Middleton
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frankelee wrote:
I don't know what I did to make the Perry Brothers love me, but I cannot get their website to charge me regular industry prices for their minis. Hopefully the checkout cart has a tip option to allow me to make up for the difference. I also tried Mantic's website, same thing there! It will not charge $3 a mini no matter how many times I try. I hope tech support clears this up once they get back on Monday.



I had that problem too but at The Warstore!!

I ordered two boxes of Confederate Infantry, with 40 dudes including command and skirmishers, and it cost me 27 dollars a box.
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Igor Persin
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CMON - chargin premium for sub par product is apparently new moto
Although there is nothing wrong with that if there are people willing buy it. I mean, if I was selling something ,and people were willing to pay me high price for something not worth that price compared to competitors on the market, I would be more than happy to take theyr money
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Kevin Outlaw
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basm4 wrote:
Maybe it's just because I am new to the CMON KSers.. but seriously? $150 for the pledge and over $400 in add-ons??

This game is crazy expensive..



I don't necessarily think that was their initial intent, but I don't think they have had the success they were expecting. They are now using add-ons to gain traction. This is very obvious with yesterday's reveal of the knight add-on that comes with an exclusive model that you can't get any other way. It's clearly encouraging people to drop $30 more in add-ons.

It definitely feels like the campaign has shifted from bringing in new blood to getting more blood out of the existing... er... blood. And it's working to an extent. CMoN has very dedicated fans who are prepared to add the money. Over the last four days the campaign raised $73,525 yet only brought in 139 new backers. If we assume all of those backers came in at $150 (the only pledge level besides dropping a nominal amount for the right to comment), that's only $20,850. So, over $52,000 in paid add-ons in just four days.

The question is, how far can they push it before the bubble bursts. I think they came very close with the exclusive model in the knights (that didn't generate a lot of extra income for them, but did generate some heat).

I will just add that I'm still not convienced KS is the best place for a war game. In my experience, with a war game, you start by buying a few units (or a starter set). You play them to decide if you like that faction. Then you start thinking what you need... "Hmm. In my last game I could have changed things with another unit of archers." Then you buy what you want.

This whole, "buying three of everything a year in advance" is a good way of having a shelf full of plastic that never sees the table. War games aren't about having everything. They're about having the right things in the right situations.

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Donn Hardy
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
This whole, "buying three of everything a year in advance" is a good way of having a shelf full of plastic that never sees the table. War games aren't about having everything. They're about having the right things in the right situations.

Which is why CMON needs to sell all of this stuff now, before their fans figure that out.
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Low Visibility

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Although war games are expensive - and I respect those who feel they are not worth the money - I do not feel this is far out of line with what FFG does for their miniature games.

Currently, the SOIAF KS is fast approaching $1 per mini. And many of the $30 boxes give 13 sculpts with 3-4 different poses, tray, cards, etc. while covering the cost of the IP. When you compare to FFG $10+ for one Imperial Assault figure or one X-wing ship - two games I play - it does not seem out of line.

Again, I very much respect views that the game is too expensive compared to board game value. I just wanted to show that for other war games and skirmish games -
especially with the IP - it is not out of line.
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Frank Lee

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Low Visibility wrote:
Although war games are expensive - and I respect those who feel they are not worth the money - I do not feel this is far out of line with what FFG does for their miniature games.

Currently, the SOIAF KS is fast approaching $1 per mini. And many of the $30 boxes give 13 sculpts with 3-4 different poses, tray, cards, etc. while covering the cost of the IP. When you compare to FFG $10+ for one Imperial Assault figure or one X-wing ship - two games I play - it does not seem out of line.

Again, I very much respect views that the game is too expensive compared to board game value. I just wanted to show that for other war games and skirmish games -
especially with the IP - it is not out of line.


No, they're not selling us Varanguard. Thank God. But as I saw someone comment on another forum about this game, they've got backers claiming this is one of the best values in tabletop gaming, and it's nowhere close. It just boggles the mind that companies can't seem to understand the tepid response to their games when they throw such hefty prices on things. Kharadron Overlords are expensive, Fyreslayers are too expensive. X-Wing and Armada are expensive, Runewars is too expensive. And people can play the game of comparing prices to two totally different products all they want, it doesn't convince anybody who knows better. Also what happened to the idea that since Kickstarters are delivering you a product a year later, largely sight unseen, that they were supposed to deliver the sort of amazing value that you can't find in any store? It's been a very crazy campaign because the most basic facts cannot be said in their comment section without being disputed and warped.
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Kevin Outlaw
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Low Visibility wrote:
Although war games are expensive - and I respect those who feel they are not worth the money - I do not feel this is far out of line with what FFG does for their miniature games.

Currently, the SOIAF KS is fast approaching $1 per mini. And many of the $30 boxes give 13 sculpts with 3-4 different poses, tray, cards, etc. while covering the cost of the IP. When you compare to FFG $10+ for one Imperial Assault figure or one X-wing ship - two games I play - it does not seem out of line.

Again, I very much respect views that the game is too expensive compared to board game value. I just wanted to show that for other war games and skirmish games -
especially with the IP - it is not out of line.


I'm not considering board games at all. As someone from the UK, there's a few things I need to consider to determine if it's good value compared to other miniatures games.

1. How much of a discount are they offering on these packs? Are they going to be $35 or $40 at retail?
2. Will the UK get the traditional 1:1 conversion rate? I've mentioned this before (sorry for repeating myself!) but in the UK $35 Runewars packs are actually £35. That makes it more expensive (in many cases) to get a unit for Runewars than it is to get a unit for a Games Workshop game.

In general, with CMoN pushing the add-on angle, is does promote a "gotta catch 'em all" mentality, which is normally seen in board game campaigns. That may backfire, as people then compare value in that way and start looking at the cost of buying everything, when really those options are there for army building... army building that people don't yet have the in-game experience to do.

Have CMoN pitche this wrong? I don't know, really. I've already seen people referring to units as "expansions" (technically true, but not really how wargamers perceive them), people balking when they realised they would need a 4x4 or 4x6 play area, and some people saying that measuring with a ruler makes it feel a bit too much like a war game.
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Darius Blackwell
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The more expensive the addons are and the more expensive the game will get after hitting retail the less players will get into it and thous it will die fast and painless death...

The main question is how serious CMON is about organized play and so on. If they are - the prices will be low to get things moving. If they want to push KS only ... well loads of silly people with fat wallets so why not ?
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Ronald Delval
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I jumped out.
The price is excessive for a kickstarter.
Especially as the goal is competitive tournament play and the mass market.

They want to compete in a subnich that recently got supercrowded with Armada, X-Wing, Rune Wars, Attack Wing etc.
The IP is big but so far they don't even seem to tackle the grittyness of that setting that much.
I had preferred a large scale skirmish game in the setting.

Instead for my Late Medieval slightly fantasy experience I'll opt for Legend of Joan of Arc by the Mythic Battles people coming on october.
Unless some epic stuff pops up on CMON's kickstarter... but I doubt it.

I also doubt they'll succeed with the approach they have for their game.
A more selfcontained game with limited expansions would have worked better I think.
But maybe they'll be luck... I doubgt it.
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Kevin Outlaw
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I just checked out the latest update, with the big reveal of the merc faction. Again, I may be jaded, but it feels like another push towards add-ons.

At 915K they unlock a deck of merc cards. But with a base pledge, you only have one merc unit (Bastard's Girls), making the deck with a base pledge useless (for now, you can obviously build the army later). But, they have another merc unit - Cutthroats - available as a paid add-on for $30, and you can buy more Bastard's Girls for $30 a pop.

Then there's a host of related add-ons: dice, dice bag, ruler. Another $24 in add-ons.

I reckon, if you wanted to make use of that deck of cards, and run a merc army with all branded paraphernalia, you're probably looking at around $150 to $200 in add-ons.
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Ronald Delval
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I just checked out the latest update, with the big reveal of the merc faction. Again, I may be jaded, but it feels like another push towards add-ons.

At 915K they unlock a deck of merc cards. But with a base pledge, you only have one merc unit (Bastard's Girls), making the deck with a base pledge useless (for now, you can obviously build the army later). But, they have another merc unit - Cutthroats - available as a paid add-on for $30, and you can buy more Bastard's Girls for $30 a pop.

Then there's a host of related add-ons: dice, dice bag, ruler. Another $24 in add-ons.

I reckon, if you wanted to make use of that deck of cards, and run a merc army with all branded paraphernalia, you're probably looking at around $150 to $200 in add-ons.


Yep. Not to mention in my opinion a priority at the start should have been knights and long range troops for both sides.
I just am bemused by the bizarre choices in this campaign.
I'd have jumped in if it had felt like an affordable game I could really play as a 'standalone' experience.
Lannister army vs Stark army.
Good start.
Afterwards I might have jumped in and bought some addons for mercs from the story or dabbled in a third faction.
Now it feels like a scattered experience... purposeful of course as they want me to rely on Retail and the 'booming tournie scene' that will spawn.

Problem is...
I don't care about tournament play.
There will be little retail availability here.
And thus i'll need to make 2 armies at a premium if I want some extra options.

That and some of those addons should simply have been easy to reach stretchgoals. Like the rulers etc.
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Igor Persin
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Low Visibility wrote:
Although war games are expensive - and I respect those who feel they are not worth the money - I do not feel this is far out of line with what FFG does for their miniature games.

Currently, the SOIAF KS is fast approaching $1 per mini. And many of the $30 boxes give 13 sculpts with 3-4 different poses, tray, cards, etc. while covering the cost of the IP. When you compare to FFG $10+ for one Imperial Assault figure or one X-wing ship - two games I play - it does not seem out of line.

Again, I very much respect views that the game is too expensive compared to board game value. I just wanted to show that for other war games and skirmish games -
especially with the IP - it is not out of line.


Why are you comparing ti to X-wing/Imperial assault, since neither are wargames in departmend CMON is taking this?
You should compare it to GW/Mantic stuff.

For example:

http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/forces-of-the-abyss/43299-forc...
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/the-dwarves/25213-dwarf-mega-f...
http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/undead/25208-undead-mega-force


That's a lot of stuff you are getting for 80pounds.

or 2 player starter for only 40pounds - http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/kings-of-war/25204-kings-of-wa...

And single units are almost areound 40% cheaper than CMON units, while at the same time giving you more models + options to model them in more than 3 poses...

Or age of sigmar, which is not that more expensive, or even cheaper than CMON, while at sime time better quality, customization etc. And most important thing, scene, people play this around the world.
With Song of ice and fire, you will be happy if you find anyone local playing it...


 
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