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Subject: Shaggai map: thoughts about the Eradication marker rss

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Bryan Stout
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The currently-running Cthulhu Wars Onslaught 3 Kickstarter campaign includes a new map expansion: Shaggai, a world that is falling into destruction even as the players compete for power over it and from it.


Starting in the center of the map, worm figures appear as harbingers of doom, and as the areas they are in are destroyed, they are replaced with the Eradication Markers while more worms appear in neighboring areas.


I love the Worm miniature figures, and was glad to learn that Sandy devised rules for using them in other maps.


I also love the eradication marker as a figure, but as a marker it is not as immersive to me as it could be. Rather than seeing a picture of the whole planet getting obliterated, I'd rather see something that shows me that that one area has been destroyed.

Fortunately, that same figure can be re-purposed to do that, by taking part of the globe and stretching it sideways so it looks something like a local volcano erupting.

Here is an image showing what I mean:

My favorite is C, but IMO any of B, C, or D would be good way of showing the destruction of a single area.

I think it would make the expansion's bling factor even better, with little extra expense since it involves just some simple mathematical changes to what I assume is a digital model.

Any comments?

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Paul Nojima
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Since Shaggai Map is all hexes for the spaces, every space is a consistent size. If Eradication means that space can't be used by anyone or anything, it could be cool to have an Eradication marker that takes up the entire hex.

Though with the new 6-8 player version, I'm sure those hexes will be larger and so the immersion drops, but still, could've been cool. Unfortunately, since everything is already China-Ready, I don't believe they can make such a change given the timeline...
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Noel
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My concern with it is that the thin stand and soft plastic of the miniature is going to be prone to warping.

Warping from being miscast.

Warping from pressure of the other pieces in the box.

Warping from the weight of the ball.

Warping from warmth. A month ago I found my King in Yellow had a serious lean. Box was kept with my other games in a warm, finished attic (my hobby room). The warmth and/or pressure from the other models caused this -- there was no lean at all when I last played. I put it under running hot water to reset it.

And the King's legs aren't as thin as that stand.
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Sid Rain
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I also worry about the stability of that planetoid sculpt. That small bit of plastic holding it up seems like it may cause problems later on down the line. I can just see alot of those spheres getting separated from the "necks".

It also bothers me that it shows an entire planet being destroyed vs just an area of the planet. A hexagonal-based version of C would be awesome, sized to the 6-8 player hex size to allow for the more extreme case.
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Nathan Speidel
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I am glad someone else had a similar thought .A standee planetoid doesn't fit with other map figures like gates or glaciers; a model that shows a portion of the map being destroyed that forces the figures off of the space would have made more sense to me.
 
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Sid Rain
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Actually, even the glacier model would make sense for an Eradication marker, just use a gray or maroon color instead of the ice-blue and it'd be perfect (though it'd be another bag of clunky minis that would only be used on a single map).
 
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Claymore Nash
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I too would rather have destroyed terrain as markers. They're not bad and I'm not upset or anything but still, could have been even better.
 
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Chase Norton
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I will throw in my vote for the Eradication marker change. The full planetoid seems odd as a marker for the destruction of a single space.

Then there is of course the durability issue. I can tell if that is not changed, PG will be sending out replacements for a large portion of them that show up broken. That is not a simple glue fix either. You will have to drill a hole in the planet to nest the stand in.
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Michael T.
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The design of the markers makes no sense except looking somewhat cool by itself. But then from afar they also look like fat birds.

One of many reasons not to like the Shaggai map expansion. In fact i am so not-interested in it that it kept me from pledging yet (but i am still on the verge because i especially like the Masks now that the Hunting Horror joined and the new acolytes).
 
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JH
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You know, if you don't want the Shaggai map you could probably just sell it off if you want the rest of the stuff.

I don't have a strong opinion on the stands; I've seen thinner that have held up. But a shattering planet is apropos for a map about a shattering planet. Passing up the map because you don't like the markers seems like the smallest of potatoes to get upset about, to me.

I wouldn't figure on a change in any case. They've repeatedly stated that the designs for this stuff are ready to go and not going to change, notwithstanding the last-minute addition of Dire Azathoth.
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Bryan Stout
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I believe that Sandy has said that they do plan to change the marker to make its stand thicker. So, A) we don't need to fear that they will be as vulnerable as they look, and B) this shows us that some change is possible.

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Bryan Stout
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Although I think the change suggested is doable, I do not think it likely to happen. Something that is more likely would be to reinstate the original black-and-red pentagonal cardboard markers in addition to the plastic markers.

You can see the original markers at the 0:56 mark in the introductory video. When the stretch goal for the plastic markers was achieved, they announced that there would be no cardboard markers, just the plastic ones. But I think I will ask them to do another survey, this time asking whether people would like to have both the cardboard and the plastic Eradication markers. I know I would like to have them -- I think they would be more immersive and even better looking: Areas that are empty except for a black flat patch while surrounded by crowded healthy areas looks pretty cool. I've seen pictures of players' maps while playtesting.

So I know I'd want the cardboard markers as well as the plastic ones. I'd use them more often. I'd be willing to pay a little more to get them.
 
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Graham Robinson
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Before this gets to be too much of a "done deal", I much prefer the original minis to any of the suggested alternatives...
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Sid Rain
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It's pretty much already a done deal, they've said the project is "China-ready". At this point I doubt the markers will be changing at all unless there was some major uproar and people started pulling their pledges in protest, but I'm pretty sure nobody (even on this thread) cares that much about the markers. It's just a discussion about what could have been (or could be if people just make their own).

Now that I think about it though, I would like to use the Eradication marker with my own Cthulhu Wars Hex-map tiles that I made up a while ago. Tiles with planets could be blown up and these markers could be used to represent that (though just removing tiles is a bit easier, though less thematic).
 
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JH
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Huh, welp, there you go! Shows what I know.
 
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Sid Rain
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I stand corrected. Apparently it IS going to change now. I guess there was an uproar amongst the masses or "China-ready" means something else
 
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Evan Carroll
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paddirn wrote:
I stand corrected. Apparently it IS going to change now. I guess there was an uproar amongst the masses or "China-ready" means something else


Since the tooling and all that would cost money that's coming from the Kickstarter, I assume "China ready" means that they're prepared to hand the designs over to the manufacturer. As long as all designs are finalized before the end of the campaign, they're technically "China ready".
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Andy Hultquist
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This is about the only change they've made this campaign that I don't care for. The old Eradication marker looked just fine to me - nothing wrong with a bit of stylistic license in showing the whole planet blowing up rather than just a local area impact. The new design looks too cartoony to me - it would be visually right at home in the world of The Manhattan Project (and I do like those games and their style alot), but in CW, I think it sticks out like a sore thumb.
 
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Graham Robinson
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The Hultquist wrote:
This is about the only change they've made this campaign that I don't care for. The old Eradication marker looked just fine to me - nothing wrong with a bit of stylistic license in showing the whole planet blowing up rather than just a local area impact. The new design looks too cartoony to me - it would be visually right at home in the world of The Manhattan Project (and I do like those games and their style alot), but in CW, I think it sticks out like a sore thumb.


I agree entirely. Much preferred the original.
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