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Subject: Societies card rss

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Cwissy
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Opponent activates Societies by reading: "I demand you transfer a card with a (light bulb) higher than my top card of the same color from your board to my board! If you do, draw a five!"

If the only top card I have on the board to fulfill this demand action is a card of a color that they don't have (and therefore no top card), do I still transfer the card?

I ask because it could be construed that opponent's top card value is zero and therefore, they would start a pile of that color.

We played it that the transfer did not occur, since the opponent did not have a top card of that color.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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It has been noted in other cases that when you have an empty stack, it's value is 0. So yes, you transfer the card.
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Chris Cieslik
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My inclination is that no, you do not have a top card to be targeted in this way. I could be wrong though.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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The way I read the effect, it only cares about the value of the top card of that colour, not that there is a card. The value of your top card of that colour is indeed zero and can be compared, which is all the Demand checks...

I can also see that I could possibly be wrong, but this makes more sense to me given the rulings on other cards.


Edit: Printing Press (Age 4) would be the prime example here. It asks you to draw a card two higher than your top purple card and it has been ruled that you draw a 2 with an empty stack. The new Societies uses extremely similar wording, so it should be treated the same way, right?
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Kirk Monsen
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the original card read
Quote:
Age 5 - Societies

mb: I demand you transfer a top non-purple card with a mb from your board to my board! If you do, draw a [5]!


The problem with that is you could end up going back in age, but on the plus side you can get cards transferred to empty stacks.

This version is supposed to be better ...

So what exactly does it do? It looks like it stops the going back in age issue ... it allows purple cards to be stolen now ... and like the previous version, if you have an empty color, you can transfer cards as the target is the card with lightbulbs, not the top card of the demander's stack.

It's a brainthinker, but I have to agree with Jorgen.

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I also agree with Jorgen based on similar rulings with other cards.
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Gillum the Stoor
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From the rules: "Value: The value of a card is its age number. If a card refers to the value of something you don’t have, like your top purple card if you have none, treat the value as 0."

It is unfortunate that the new Societies card doesn't use the word value.

Instead, it says "I DEMAND you transfer a card with a BULB higher than my top card of the same color from your board to my board! If you do, draw a 5!"

Things would be clearer if it had said "whose value is higher than that of my top card" - but the text would have been pretty crowded!
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Jorgen Peddersen
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My argument is by using the term 'higher', the dogma is invoking value. Higher in this game only refers to the value of a card, and while the top card of a certain colour may not exist, its value does.
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Clipper wrote:
My argument is by using the term 'higher', the dogma is invoking value. Higher in this game only refers to the value of a card, and while the top card of a certain colour may not exist, its value does.

p. 12 of the Third Edition rules supports your argument:
Quote:
Highest / Lowest: Refers to the value (age number) of the cards in question. In the case of a tie, you can pick which of your cards are affected.

Combined with the quoted definition for Value above, I don't see how there's any other interpretation for this card.
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Cwissy
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Thanks, everyone for the input! I was outvoted, but I agree with "topmost card value of a cardless stack is zero".
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