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Subject: Conquest Victory rss

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Ryan Schroeder
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So my group plays with Player Elimination "on," which is to say that if (by some miracle) a player has all of their units removed from the map, they are out of the game, and by extension that if someone manages to be the last player standing, they win. We all collectively agreed on this years ago when we first started playing.

The reasons for this are many, but I'll skip straight to the main one: allowing players to "come back" makes most of us actually feel worse, like we're being forced to continue to play a game we have no hope of winning (I know that's not the point of the rule; it's just how my group perceives such an effect).

To date, I have seen two games in which exactly one player was eliminated (I have played 100+ games, but I don't keep careful count). Both times, the player in question was Crawling Chaos, who got picked on by various players throughout the game and never got anything close to all his spells. I've never seen more than 1 player get eliminated.

My question is this: if you wanted to play specifically to accomplish the goal of wiping all other factions off the map, who would you play and why? Let's assume that (A) all official player factions are available (Azathoth is not a "player faction") and (B) High Priests are in play.
 
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Ben Turner
Australia
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Well, skipping the discussion of "playing to win" and "playing for fun", I'd go with the Windwaker faction. They are basically an unstoppable walking army by the end of the game, if they develop well.
 
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Ryan Schroeder
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Phantomwhale wrote:
Well, skipping the discussion of "playing to win" and "playing for fun"

It's worth noting that the player in both games where CC got eliminated got about 1.5 turns into the game, realized what was going down and was the first to suggest (with a smile on his face) that he might be eliminated (and actually started trying to get eliminated the second time. We're not all playing to win as opposed to playing for fun, but it seems kind of silly to us to say "hey, put a Cultist back on the map; you're still in this" when someone has been that thoroughly trounced. Usually, they're too busy laughing at how bad they're doing and how ridiculous it is for someone to be eliminated in Cthulhu Wars to care about victory.

See, the thing about WW that I don't like for this is how they need someone else to qualify for victory to get unlimited Battle. My breakdown goes something like this

GC: Devour and a cheaply respawned GOO make fighting the enemy just that much easier, and your efficient units are a plus as well. Dreams provides a way to get rid of those last few Cultists in a jiffy, too (especially with the buff).
BG: No really great way to do it, and no really great reason to. Goat is a strong faction precisely for how it avoids direct confrontation.
CC: Madness, S&D, and Flight are all HUGE boons, but you lack the full destructive potential of some other factions. Plus all your combat potential is focused into your GOO, which makes running a solid option.
YS: LOTS of ways to kill Cultists and get around, but nothing for killing large groups of enemies. With Feast and proper planning, they could be fun to play this way, but would almost certainly be better off going for Third Eye anyway.
Opener: Channel Power and Dread Curse alone make it viable for Opener to wipe out one faction, but they lack the mobility and staying power to keep up the fight for long against multiple threats.
Sleeper: Capture Monster, Demand Sacrifice, Lethargy...surprisingly viable, if a bit gimmicky.
WW: Brutal, but slow. Likely to be unable to pull it off due to the sheer amount of time necessary.
TT: Look, if your enemies ball up where you can Idolatry to them, it's there fault for being eliminated.
Ancients: Unholy Ground and Dematerialization, as well as cheap monsters make them formidable opponents, but like Opener, they simply lack the necessary mobility to make full-scale world domination viable.

In all, my top 3 are Sleeper, then Cthulhu, then Opener.

Tactically, it's a huge priority to minimize your opponents' control of Gates (prevents resummoning monsters and reduces their Doom).
 
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Tony Reardon
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I don't think the rules as they are presented makes for a very interesting Deathmatch style game. Far be it from me to deuce on another person's fun, but I might also consider trying to make a Deathmatch game mode with your pals if you're all interested in this sort of thing.
 
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Ryan Schroeder
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ToeSama wrote:
I don't think the rules as they are presented makes for a very interesting Deathmatch style game.

I both agree and disagree. The rules definitely make playing to eliminate your opponents both difficult and unrewarding, but that's part of what makes this such an interesting thought exercise (for me, anyway). How does one go about systematically taking down all their adversaries in a game that heavily discourages that approach? Can it be done (of course the technical answer is yes, but the pragmatic answer is up for debate)? How efficient are the various factions at it? Is there anyone or anything that seems better or worse-suited to it than your gut instinct would tell you? The exercise isn't one for every day use, but for taking an extreme approach to strategic analysis (and, potentially, to implement an optimized version of at a later date).

I post a lot about hypothetical, weird situations in games because (A) I find it interesting to think about edge cases and (B) my general thought process going into a turn of most games I play is "what's the funniest thing I could do with this turn?" (full disclosure, I'm generally not good at games, so I try to make sure everyone playing has a good time instead focusing overly hard on winning) And that's resulted in some stupendously unusual matches, especially in Cthulhu Wars. But that's a discussion for another thread.
 
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Tony Reardon
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I suppose. From a time standpoint, I can't see many people trying it. I'd sooner come up with rules that can make play comparable to the length of a regular game. Full elimination until one faction remains seems like it would take 8 player level of hours for even a four player game.

But by all means, do you. Nothing wrong with just throwing science at a wall to see what sticks
 
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Hound Tindalos
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Based on Elimination - to make it more interesting that you don't try to wipe someone totally out - anyone totally eliminated gains every one else's collected elder signs when they return.... blessed by Azathoth - thus one tries wiping out to a hair's breadth.... yeah....

 
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Roger Wood
United States
St. George
UT
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How much doom could eliminating an opponent faction be worth? I had an idea that if you're behind you could switch tactics to eliminate an opposing faction. If you succeed you will be awarded 10 (or some other amount) of doom. Not a bad way to make a comeback.
 
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Bernard Gourion
France
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if you want fighting, just use the Primeval map and play a normal game.
 
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