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Terraforming Mars» Forums » General

Subject: [POLL] No-draft or Draft? rss

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Chaddyboy
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Seems like folks have pretty strong opinions on this one, but I have no idea which side has more! Which do you prefer to play with?

Poll
Which do you prefer to play TM with? No draft, or draft?
No draft
Draft
      382 answers
Poll created by chaddyboy_2000
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Jeff Kayati
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Always draft, except solo and two player.
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Rob White
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Definitely draft. No matter who is playing and what the player count is. And always different corps. If you're worried about time, then take out the advanced card with the litttle red marks.
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AJ Cooper
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I'm in the non-drafting camp. I discussed my reasons here

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1717767/didnt-drafting

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jkayati wrote:
Always draft, except solo.


In solo draft is great. Look at all 4 cards, pick one, pass the remaining three to yourself ...
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Bryan Thunkd
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Drafting makes the game.
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Bill Eldard
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The only time I don't use drafting is when we have first-time players, because newbies already have enough to absorb. Otherwise, drafting is preferred, because I've played a 3-player game in which one player never saw cards that his corporation could use, while I got plenty of the cards he needed, often two or more. With drafting, I could only deny him one before I passed the cards.
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Steve Cohn
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We usually skip the draft. It doesn't really seem to add anything to the game other than 30-40 minutes of time and people repeatedly saying things like "oh, this one is so good, I can't possibly pass it to you, but this one, I have to keep this one."

I'll go make a sandwich while their deciding.

Dealing out the additional cards 1-per realistically breaks up that chance of Ecoline drawing 4 plant-production-increase cards in any one generation and even if they did, plop your cities near their plants and force them to give you bonus points for the end of game scoring!
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Gomeril Gnak
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The luck factor is high anyway. So the considerable extra time for draft just isn't worth it.
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Trevor Taylor
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I've only played it with new players or solo so far. But at the moment, I don't think the draft adds enough to be worth the extra time. I just want to get on with working my engine...
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Isaac Fryxelius
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I rather play it without draft. goes faster, and lets me create combos with what I see...
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Chris Guild
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Just started playing, haven't tried the draft yet.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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And this is why polls are good things. If you just went by comments you might think not drafting was the popular choice, while according to the poll 2/3rds of people draft.
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AJ Cooper
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One thing that occurred to me is to use a single step draft: keep 2, pass 2, done. This would greatly reduce the major downside of drafting (time), and also allow players to keep a combo they draw.
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Jeff K
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Thunkd wrote:
And this is why polls are good things. If you just went by comments you might think not drafting was the popular choice, while according to the poll 2/3rds of people draft.


True.

I think it would be interesting to take the poll further to see how deeply folks hold their convictions.

For example: you could add: "I'd never consider playing with/without drafting"

After playing both ways many times, I'm firmly in the mind of I would never consider playing without drafting. As in: I'd turn down this game if the group said no draft. And I really love this game.

I doubt many feel that way. But it would be interesting to know to what extent they felt this way, or the opposite way.
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Oliver Paul
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Xookliba wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
And this is why polls are good things. If you just went by comments you might think not drafting was the popular choice, while according to the poll 2/3rds of people draft.


True.

I think it would be interesting to take the poll further to see how deeply folks hold their convictions.

For example: you could add: "I'd never consider playing with/without drafting"

After playing both ways many times, I'm firmly in the mind of I would never consider playing without drafting. As in: I'd turn down this game if the group said no draft. And I really love this game.

I doubt many feel that way. But it would be interesting to know to what extent they felt this way, or the opposite way.


Take this with a grain of salt, since I'm not a huge fan of the game (I like it fine), but I would turn down a game of this with drafting, mainly because I just don't like drafting as a mechanism. Also, I think that the game takes a bit too long as is (3+ hours), and drafting would just add to that.

Another thing, for me, in games like this and Agricola where people draft the cards, I'm not looking to make some sort of perfect engine with exactly the right cards. The fun, for me at least, is in using the cards you're dealt, and figuring out how to use them in the best possible way.
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Jeff K
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murksofus wrote:
Another thing, for me, in games like this and Agricola where people draft the cards, I'm not looking to make some sort of perfect engine with exactly the right cards. The fun, for me at least, is in using the cards you're dealt, and figuring out how to use them in the best possible way.


So here is the thing of it: I am usually this way as well. For example, in Viticulture, people talk about the luck of the card draws and how a draft would help with the visitors (as they are a powerful element). I do not think this is a good idea. You are supposed to work with what you have. But in Viti, you draw a LOT of cards and your draws even out. There is much more to work with and combos are always available.

In TM, the only luck element is the patents card draw. And it doesn't happen often enough. Powerful combos show up only rarely, and they almost invariably end up a huge impact in the outcome. Much larger than I am comfortable with. So there is a specific reason I feel this way with this particular game. YMMV

So, yes, I am sure many do not feel this way. But for me it is not time, but swinginess. I also think that even with drafting, you are not able to build a perfect engine. You will still have to seize opportunities as they arise.

As an aside on the time issue: perhaps it has to do with how much experience you have. The draft does not add much time to our games anymore, we all know the cards and turns are fast. We can knock out a game of this with drafting in less than 3 hours easy. Drafting also means that you think less about what to buy after the draft, and your play during the action phase is much quicker. I usually have already decided most of my plays while we are drafting. This is also not considered by folks that much. I know my turn in advance, as opposed to when I am blindly drawing and I need to figure things out on the fly. That takes way more time. So you lose the time you saved by skipping the draft.

Anyway, that's my .02, but I am sure there are many ways to enjoy this great game!
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John Burt
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I would like to draft, but since I mostly play it solo or with other players who are AP prone and slow in general, it just isn't worth the extra time it would add.
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Peter Strait
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No draft if using the basic corporations, draft if using the regular ones. Otherwise there's far too large an element of someone either drawing into their corporation's strengths/needs or (more commonly) failing to do so.
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John Burt
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Xookliba wrote:
As an aside on the time issue: perhaps it has to do with how much experience you have. The draft does not add much time to our games anymore, we all know the cards and turns are fast. We can knock out a game of this with drafting in less than 3 hours easy. Drafting also means that you think less about what to buy after the draft, and your play during the action phase is much quicker. I usually have already decided most of my plays while we are drafting. This is also not considered by folks that much. I know my turn in advance, as opposed to when I am blindly drawing and I need to figure things out on the fly. That takes way more time. So you lose the time you saved by skipping the draft.


In my experience, a person's speed of play is determined by a combination of experience, cognitive load and an inherent degree of quickness. My wife is smart and we've played TFM 20+ times, but she still takes forever to choose her four drawn cards (or whatever - it doesn't matter what game we play). Two of our gaming partners are even worse. I have to laugh whenever someone asserts that a game can be completed in X short amount of time, because I know it would never happen with my group, no matter how many times we'd played the game.
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Mark Jackson
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What is the sound of one card shuffling?
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Basic cards: no draft
Corporate era: draft

Personally I think corporate era is terrible without the draft, as you are completely dependent on the card draw to ever get any production of most resources. Seeing all those extra cards helps tremendously.

Flip side, I also think the corporate era game is way too long and don't particularly enjoy playing it.

Hence, we typically play base cards/no draft.
 
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Brad Keusch
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draft and its not even close, and always include all the cards even in teaching games. We have found the draft actually can speed the game up too because its easier to get synergies that work for you, and results in much more tense, interesting games. I played without it twice I think and I will straight up bow out of the game if its not used
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j n
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I always want to draft. While the game takes a bit longer this way, the fun-to-time-spent ratio improves pretty significantly, which is what matters most to me. Fortunately, my playgroup agrees.

That said, I don't draft in teaching games and I would play with a group that didn't want to draft (depending on what other gaming options were available).
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Chaddyboy
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I'm a big fan of no-draft, as I prefer making the best of what I get and responding accordingly, rather than picking a strategy and fishing for cards that support that strategy.

Not getting the "cards I need" or another player getting "better cards" is never an issue, as to me, the game is all about responding to what you get and making the best of it.
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Chaddyboy
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Thunkd wrote:
And this is why polls are good things. If you just went by comments you might think not drafting was the popular choice, while according to the poll 2/3rds of people draft.

Ha, my perception was just the opposite! I feel like I'm always seeing comments about how the draft makes it a real game, to which I say "NOOOOOO!" in my head.
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