Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

The Shipwreck Arcana» Forums » General

Subject: question about The Hours card rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Maricel Edwards
United States
Fontana
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So it says: "If you cannot play anywhere else, play one of your fates here. Then move it one card to the right."

What is the "it" in the second sentence referring to? The fate played? The Hours card itself? If the former, wouldn't "moving it one card to the right" negate the clue? Am I making this more complicated than it is?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Bishop
United States
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmb
"It" is the fate you just played.

Moving it doesn't negate the clue; your allies clearly see "oh, they couldn't play anywhere"; the movement afterwards is to allocate the fate to an arcana card and get that card closer to fading (since The Hours can't fade).

Playing on The Hours is the equivalent of having the player announce "I can't play" and then putting one of their fates on the left-most arcana card.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maricel Edwards
United States
Fontana
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tosx wrote:
"It" is the fate you just played.

Moving it doesn't negate the clue; your allies clearly see "oh, they couldn't play anywhere"; the movement afterwards is to allocate the fate to an arcana card and get that card closer to fading (since The Hours can't fade).

Playing on The Hours is the equivalent of having the player announce "I can't play" and then putting one of their fates on the left-most arcana card.


Because you want the arcana to fade, especially since you can't use any of them. I see, said the blind man! cool

I guess I was operating under the assumption that I don't want arcana cards to fade because doesn't that mean we advance on the doom track? But you need them to fade or you can't give any more clues. Oh, the game just got so much harder! LOL!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Bishop
United States
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmb
Actually you were right on both counts.

The players would prefer the arcana cards NOT fade; however, cards fading is the main source of tension in the game, so we didn't want there to be turns where you got "free" plays that didn't hasten something, somewhere, fading.

The secondary effect is also intentional; if you end up with a restrictive board state, you don't want it to just sit there forever. So forcing cards to always progress towards fading prevents the game from turning into a slog.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maricel Edwards
United States
Fontana
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Okay, so let's play this scenario out: I pull a fate and realize I can't legally play it on any of the 4 arcana cards. Therefore, I play it on the Hours card, indicating that I have no moves to make. Then...

...do I immediately take that fate and place it on the card to the right (to the right of the Hours card, right)? How does that look? Isn't that rather awkward? "I play this 4 here. See that? Here (Hours card)! So now I place the 4 here (card to right), but remember, don't use that 4 to guess because I had just played it there (Hours card) but I need here (card to right) to fade away."

I don't mean to be cheeky; I'm just trying to figure this out in my head so when I explain it to my students (yes, I intend to use this as a bonding activity with my seniors!), I don't look foolish.

P.S. I spent the entire afternoon printing out the cards, sleeving them and making fate tokens and I even sewed up a pouch to hold them all. Now if only I can find someone to play with...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Bishop
United States
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmb
No cheek taken!

It's a perfectly valid question. Without the space constraints of the card it would have been worded to slide the token "at the end of the current turn", which is generally what we do anyway: play the token on The Hours and leave it there while the group discusses, then once the Predict phase is over, slide.

But, given players are trying to read these across a table, we opted for simpler text and larger font.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Bishop
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
I believe another wording we considered at one point was something like "If you can't play anywhere else, announce that and then play on the leftmost arcana card."

Since none of the wordings were excessively elegant, we ended up with the one Matthew described for space reasons (and I didn't care for the "announce" concept).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maricel Edwards
United States
Fontana
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the clarification, gentlemen. Forgive me for beating a dead horse, however; the English major in me just won't let it go.

I understand economy of space on the card, and I am also a strong proponent for an elegant turn of phrase. But in the interest of clarity, might I respectfully suggest the following:

"If no plays are valid, put one of your fates here. Complete your turn, then transfer the fate to the adjacent arcana card."

I did a Word count, and my version is only 24 characters longer than what's currently on the card. Just sayin'.

Of course, this is all moot if you already have the card ready for print and/or sent to print, but I like word conundrums and I thought to share my solution with you for posterity.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrobius Julius
Finland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This is a perfect game for me. I also printed the PnP.

One thing which I don't like happens when no arcana card fits and doom allows no more errors. In that situation the game punishes players for no reason. An arcana card may fade and doom advances. Then the game could end and the players can't do anything about. A lucky guess possibly saves them but guessing is no smart reasoning, about what the game should mostly be.

I prefer the most used arcana card fade first. But that is an other question.

And I got rid of the "same" - The Mirror arcana. It's too plain.

Thanks for the nice game. I look forward a bit more streamlined version. modest
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Bishop
United States
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmb
Thanks for the interest, and glad you tried the PnP! Sorry if it wasn't to your liking but thanks for the feedback.

I'm not quite sure about your "most used arcana card fades first" comment, as that's roughly what happens. It's certainly possible to have an unlucky board state where you can't convey information, but (especially on normal difficulty) it's usually very doable to work your way through these cases.

The Mirror's value (to the game) is mostly that it eats up a card slot with a difficult-to-satisfy ability, meaning it's usually not helping as much as another card there might. But it is also one of the more luck-based cards, so I can appreciate your comment.

I will say the game is very easy to house rule to your own tastes if you decide to do so. It's been in development for 2 years and we're pretty happy with where it's at now.

Cheers!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrobius Julius
Finland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tosx wrote:
I will say the game is very easy to house rule to your own tastes if you decide to do so. It's been in development for 2 years and we're pretty happy with where it's at now.

Thank you for your answer. I am sure you have tested The Shipwreck Arcana throughly with every player count. I am very happy with the game idea. Actually with several ideas. We will house rule only minor things. Time will tell if I am able to convey my interest to my friends.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Bishop
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
tosx wrote:
Patrobius wrote:
And I got rid of the "same" - The Mirror arcana. It's too plain.
The Mirror's value (to the game) is mostly that it eats up a card slot with a difficult-to-satisfy ability, meaning it's usually not helping as much as another card there might.

I usually think of The Mirror as a difficult card that still conveys really excellent, really narrow information. While The Mirror is out, you *know* (with zero doubt) that if someone doesn't play on it, they did not have duplicate fates. This can be really helpful for other cards such as The Judge ("Even"); if I play a 4 on The Judge, I must have a 2/4/6 left in my hand, but if The Mirror is out and I'd had two 4s in my hand, I would have played one of the 4s on The Mirror instead. So you know I can't have a second 4 and must be holding a 2/6 instead.

Also, there's a non-zero value in having low-moon cards out, since they can fade quicker and therefore become powers quicker. In The Mirror's case, not only does it fade quickly, but you're guaranteed to be able to cancel the fade, get a power, and get a point. So having it out is very painful but very lucrative if you can cash in.

Just my 2 cents, after multiple times where I've stared at the card and gone "Why do we have this again? Oh, wait..."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.