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Subject: Idea: Using individual rules from story cards as general rules. rss

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tony peacock
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So myself an a couple of friends recently decided to play King of All Londinium, but with all the expansions still in play. We're really struggling compared to a more "sandbox" scenario we previously played. Specifically things like Havens not even existing because only 2 story cards even use them? So I dug through the story cards and tried to find something from each expansion that worked well as a "rule" rather than only being in play when the relevant story card is in use.

Overall game rules. To be applied at all times unless story/setup card conflicts in which case use whichever fits best combined with common sense.

Blue Sun - Havens - Friends in Low Places
For 1 action a player may purchase Fuel and take Shore Leave at a Haven. If the Haven is your own, pay $0 for Shore Leave and upto 4 fuel.
*optional house rule - if purchasing from another players Haven, pay the player not the bank*

This is just to make Havens do *something* in general games, as I think Haven placement or purpose isn't in rules anywhere.

Kalidasa - Starting Jobs
Each Player takes 3 additional starting Jobs from a Contact of their choice during setup. Discard total Jobs down to 3 as usual.

This one I'd kinda consider optional? I feel like with more specialised ships, more specialised contacts and the fact there are so many jobs in the decks that this way people can start off the game with a better plan of what to do. Of course this one would conflict with alot of story cards so I'd expect it to not come into play much.

Crime & Punishment - Clear Skies
For the first 5 turns a Player may roll a die, the result being the max number of Sectors a Player may move before drawing Nav cards.

Everyone I've played with likes this idea, 5 turns is enough to get an easy job or two completed and eases everyone into the game while people are getting into the groove of things.

Pirates & Bounty Hunters - Jobs - Piracy
After starting Jobs have been dealt, pull all Piracy Jobs from Contact Decks and place in their respective discard piles. Reshuffle Decks.

Piracy is something that feels like it's not quite as accessible as it should be, but house rules I've seen tend to end up with everyone having a piracy job "just in case". Im hoping this will make piracy a little more available to people without trying to shoehorn a small part of the game into being a bigger one. Thus, may work well as a rule for "general" games.

Jetwash - Supply Decks - Double Dip
Draw 6 cards for each Supply Deck discard pile, rather than the usual 3.

We didn't do this on our current game and have missed it terribly. We all ended up wasting turns going through decks for cards we needed, plus far away shops had much less temptation to get people to visit them.

Esmerelda - Setup - The Browncoat Way
Each player gets $12000 to purchase their Ship/Fuel/Parts.

Again this one is to cater for more for specialised ships so that A: ship price I'd actually used and B: so that ships such as the Interceptor don't have more/less fuel than required.

That's what I have currently. Does anyone have any suggestions/comments/criticisms? My goal is really to affect the main story card as little as possible, while still ensuring things like Havens and unique ships have a fair chance and can be useful. I've seen a couple of similar threads, plus there's the pdf in the files section with all the combined options from all the cards, but I'm after something simple and more "rules errata" rather than a bunch of house rules.
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Jim Kiefer
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I always use the brown coat way since I have all the ships and it seems to make it fairer.

I think making piracy easier might be fun in a more experienced group.

 
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George Krubski
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I was working on an "a la Carte" set up a while back. It's a bit out of date, but may have some useful ideas.

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/25125703#25125703

As for struggling with King of All Londinium... I recommend that you try different things and fiddle with 'em! One of the reasons I love the game is that you can play three different games and have them all be completely different due to set up/story combo.

Although CRIME & PUNISHMENT changes things up a bit, I class story cards into three broad categories:

GOAL-ORIENTED cards are basically "Do X a set number of times before the other guy does." This is a specific activity, that may be completing a certain type of Job, getting Solid with a set number of contacts, etc.

MONEY GRABS are all about acquiring a certain amount of coin before the other guy. Sure, there are other elements in play, but the core is "get the most money."

STORY-ORIENTED CARDS (my personal favorite) are the most structured, with specific requirements. In my experience, these are most fun with a small number of players, while the more open-ended ones can be more fun with more players.

In a sense, there's a bit of tiering up in complexity, where in Goal-Oriented cards, you're doing the job (or activity) just to do it. In Money Grabs, you're doing the job to get money, and in Story-Oriented Cards, you're doing jobs to get money to spend money on (sometimes specific) resources.

All three can be a lot of fun.

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Jay Johnson
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If I remember correctly, the story cards that use Havens generally have some other rules in place that ramp up difficulty a bit, so the Havens kind of balance that out. Having Havens in play without the increased difficulty would make for an easier game in some ways (not that there is anything wrong with that). However, I believe that if Havens are in play, players are supposed to start at their Havens, and the Havens can't be at Supply planets. So that would mean that players won't be able to start out at a supply planet. (unless you change that rule too).


Double-priming the pump: I usually flip 6 cards for each of the 5 Core supply planets, but only 3 for the two Rim supply planets. Since the Core decks have gotten beefed up with the expansions, while the Rim decks still only have 25.
Alternatively, I saw a suggestion somewhere on here that I liked that involved pulling certain "no name" Crew members, like Gun Hands, Scrappers (mechs), Scrappers (pilots), and Med Staff from their respective supply decks and having them start in the discard piles. This would make some of the common professions (pilot, mechanic, medic) available right off the bat, so people don't have to sit there fishing for them. If this option is in effect, I'd probably only flip 3 cards for each supply deck, plus the pre-determined "no name" ones.
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tony peacock
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Apologies if i miss anything, 3rd time trying to reply to this as phone kept crashing grr...

When I first put out the new ships for my group to look at, the first thing they asked was if they could buy their own ships at marked price. Then we found the Browncoat Way card and just agreed to do it that way from now on.

Thanks Gwek for providing me with another excellent resource I'll certainly pass it on to the group. We agree with how you've catagorised them, we've played a "money grab" once and nobody really cared for it. That said we're also not 100% happy with the story cards. It mostly feels like 75% of the game is spent doing jobs and gearing up, then a sudden rush of completing goals. Basically it ends up with nobody being certain of just how close others are to being able to blitz through the goals untill its too late. So far its either resulted in a super fun race to the finish line (last game all 4 players were sharing sectors every round through goal collecting) but often it ends up with one player setting off first for a Goal and the others never being able to catch them once theyve started.

Granted alot of this probably comes down to us being new players, but still, we're gonna look out for custom story cards that look fun. Anyway I've gone off on a tangent here...

Jay - Thats a good point, I should probably try and get us all to start at our Havens. To be honest, even with the free fuel, nobody really uses them. Infact in our last game a Haven was only used once by a single player, moving there to protect himself from the Reavers since all 3 (plus tokens) were adjacent to his sector, so he hid at the haven between turns. He didn't actually do anything there though, just hid.

I like the idea of only giving the expansion decks 3 cards primed, however when I suggested this to our group someone pointed out that having the distant shops filled with more loot means its more enticing and players are more likely to go there. Plus for simplicitys sake we're trying to keep rules as simple and close to the standard as possible. Which is why rather than house ruling everything we started with actual rules from story cards, with slight tweaking as we desired.

We played with the rules I posted a couple of times, then we playaed a game last night with slight adjustments.

Clear Skies - We went with 1d6 halved and rounded down. We felt it was a nice balance as a full d6 speeds up the game drasticly but also takes away almost all nav card usage, making alliance and especially reavers a minor threat. With 1d6 halved and rounded down players still got a few "free" moves, but still needed to draw nav cards often and the Reavers came into play quite a lot. It also means not having to keep track of a countdown token pile, which nobody remembers to use properly.

Pirates & Bounty Hunters - Jobs - Piracy
So by default this was to pull all piracy jobs and place in the discard pile to make them more readily availible to those who want them, but not waste a "consider" spot for people who didnt. Trouble is it added more to the setup time as I'd have to sort through and reshuffle 5 decks before we could continue. Plus it means that people are constantly sifting through the discards to find non piracy jobs, eventually people wanted them in a seperate discard and well it was downhill from there.

The super-lazy-soloution we ended on was: anytime a piracy card is drawn, you may immediatly discard and draw a new job card. This means the discards arent flooded with piracy, it makes piracy jobs more accessible than default but not too easily gained and it means not having to reshuffle 5 decks before the game can continue. Everyone felt this was a happy comprimise.


Boy is modifying the rules a slippery slope. We initially had a big 6 player game with a ton of house rules and everything just bogged down and became clunky. Wheras now we're all pretty happy with the rules we've got so far.

Thanks for the replies, sorry I was so slow in getting back to y'all
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George Krubski
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Tony,

One thing that I do is print out my house rules on cards when possible, so we have access to them.
 
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Dave Rowley
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We always use George's "Unique Fireflies" to give flavour to each of the otherwise identical-in-play Core Game ships.

I had a look through his Gallery (all 26 pages) and the card is no longer there. Must have been "cleared out!"

BTW I made a Ship Upgrade for my light blue standard firefly instead of the Artful Dodger, to go with the substitute Ship Card.



Keep Flyin'
 
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tony peacock
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Yeah that seems the smartest idea, we had them written down on paper to pass around. I do want them printing (hopefully on a story/setup themed card) but though it best to wait until we had a more refined version, which really requires testing via playing. But we've had a few games now and better understand things, so we're pretty settled on these rules.

Edit: hah yeah we also run with his unique upgrades, lately I've been favoring the Yun-Qi with its medbay and then having Murphy (medic/mechanic) as my Leader. Last game I had 2 medics (almost 4!) and 2 medbays, nobody died on my watch.

Side note, everyone's LOVES the unique fireflies, really feels like it balances things out when picking ships.
 
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Dave Rowley
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captainhair wrote:

Edit: hah yeah we also run with his unique upgrades, lately I've been favoring the Yun-Qi with its medbay and then having Murphy (medic/mechanic) as my Leader. Last game I had 2 medics (almost 4!) and 2 medbays, nobody died on my watch.

I think you might have been a bit over zealous with your Medic use...

Have a look at page 18 of the Core Game rule book.

Quote:
Only make one Medic Check per Crew Killed, regardless of how many Medics are in your Crew.

Sorry. soblue
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tony peacock
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UpStarter wrote:
only make one Medic Check per Crew Killed, regardless of how many Medics are in your Crew.

Sorry. soblue[/q]

Oh I hadn't noticed that, thanks for pointing it out! That said, what about medbays? I had 2 of them so not sure if that means I can reroll twice for 1 failed medic check? I don't think I ever actually used more than 3 rolls (1 medic check, 2 rerolls) to save someone.
 
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Thorfinn Skullsplitter
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Just one re-roll. So the second medbay is kind of overkill. Likewise more than one or two Medics. Love the hospital theme to your ship though. And there's a certain denial strategy in hiring ALL the Medics.

Maybe you can house rule something where if you're in the same Sector, and you have a medbay, you can roll a Medic check for the Rival Crew - for a price of course.
 
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Jay Johnson
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Scarbuck wrote:
Just one re-roll. So the second medbay is kind of overkill.

Thematically, that makes sense. Having two fully stocked med bays isn't going to help save one patient any more than having one.

But is there a specific rule clarification that states that?

Does this apply to other "re-roll" abilities?

If you're doing a Fight test with Zoe carrying Extra Ammo Clips, and you fail the first time, you can re-roll using Zoe's ability. If you fail the second time, can you discard the clips and re-roll again? Or not because you can only re-roll once?
 
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tony peacock
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Yeah I mean on one hand 2/3rds or my crew and upgrade slots were used by medicinal stuff, but I agree it felt a little powerful having so many medic rolls. I don't think it made sense thematically either, however everyone got a good laugh out of my "inept medics" declaring people dead only for another doctor to be like "wait, this one's still breathing!" And the idea of crew dying, but getting a second opinion from another doctor.

I'm in lined to agree that 1 medbay reroll is the limit, maybe a house rule of "no duplicates" aside from discard able cards like crybaby and such? Not sure. Maybe it'll just have to be decided when it comes up as I'm sure medic checks aren't the only thing that would bring this issue up. Wouldn't want to ban all duplicates outright as things like multiple crybabys. Maybe limit it to "one reroll per unique card" or something.

If it wasn't for the fact I had jayne and 3 Mudders I'd have totally picked up the other 2 medics I passed on. With our broken rules (didn't know about medic roll limit) I'd have had 12 rolls to save someone each time. With the proper rules it'd just be 3 with both medbays counted, which is at least reasonable and limited even if it doesn't fit thematically.
 
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George Krubski
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Per the rules, as discussed, you only get one Medic roll no matter how many Medics you have. However, I believe that each Upgrade should allow a separate re-roll.

Each crew Crew, Gear, or Upgrade that allows a re-roll allows a single re-roll. I believe these should "stack," although this has not been officially addressed anywhere.
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Thorfinn Skullsplitter
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gwek wrote:
Per the rules, as discussed, you only get one Medic roll no matter how many Medics you have. However, I believe that each Upgrade should allow a separate re-roll.

Each crew Crew, Gear, or Upgrade that allows a re-roll allows a single re-roll. I believe these should "stack," although this has not been officially addressed anywhere.




I actually really like that version. Not where I would have gone with it - too many years playing 40K, but I'm stealing that interpretation. arrrh
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tony peacock
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Yeah I'm inclined to agree, it's simple and fits the rules (or lack of rules I guess). I don't see it as bring too overpowered as it does take an upgrade slot. Same would go for ammo clips, if you've got them yoy can use them but they still take up a valuable gear slot.

Apologies if this threads gone off on a tangent btw
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