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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Making my first (real) run against the L1 Butcher rss

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Tod Hostetler
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Finished LY 4 today in my 3rd campaign today, so the Butcher is coming at us next week. I have never beat the Butcher but we are planning the battle best we can.

Overall our loot hauls have been really great, we have two archers and two Tiger Claw arrows, a King Spear and a pair of Katars. Almost everyone has a Bone Dagger as backup weapon and we are carrying 3 Founding Stones. Everyone's got at least light armor on body, 3 of us with skull helmets, 3 with Leather Gloves, 3 with monster grease... virtually no leg armor.

Tools: We also have a Harp and a Frenzy drink and a Fecal Salve. A consumable crab spider will recover 3 Survival points at any time for the person that carries it.

Stat and ability-wise, we are poor. A couple people with +1 accuracy, and that's it. No real Fighting Arts to speak except one person with Double Dash. If I remember the Butcher right he commonly does Brain Damage, but we chose Embrace the Darkness which means none of us can actually be killed by Brain Trauma because of the +2 on the roll (yeah we can be traumatized but we can't die to it).

Where I really want your opinion is on this. Given the above, choose which you think is better:

Everyone has 4 Survival points and we know Dodge and Encourage.
~or~
Everyone has 3 Survival points and we know Dodge, Encourage and Dash.

I guess it comes down in my mind to this, are we more afraid of the Butcher's attacks or his counterattacks? Dodge will only get you out of one Attack (from AI cards), but Dash can get you out of range of his followup Reactions (from bad Hit Location cards), with the additional benefit of being able to position Pounce (Katar guy has Lion Cloak) and decent Archer shots.

~another option~
We could drop a couple Armor points to get a Rawhide Whip. Put that on the Double Dash survivor, use the whip to become Priority target and then spend the rest of the game just double dashing just out of his range while the rest of the team tries to close in and get hits in.
Does this sound good?

Note that if we take the Whip, we need Ammonia, and we can't have Ammonia AND dash for the whole team. We have to choose between Ammonia and Paint this lantern year, before the Butcher fight, so only the 'mouse' would be able to Dash.

Share your thoughts if any, or at least wish us luck.
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David Tolin
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I'm not very experienced (only two campaigns), but I would always prioritize Dash, I think.

Unrelated question: How do you have Leather Gloves if you don't have Ammonia?
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Tod Hostetler
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Rawhide gloves not Leather, my mistake. We grabbed those for the Survival +1.

And yeah, I am thinking Dash over Dodge as well, there's probably a good reason Dodge is default but Dash needs to be researched...
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Alessio Massuoli
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Get dash, it will still be somewhat hard with your loadout. If you avoid using those katars in pairs and luck out some hits despite the poor strength, you can do it.

Your worst weakness is that butcher has 16 hit locations, three of which are impervious and one (or two?) is superdense, while another one is a trap, and your best hit is with a paired weapon, and you have lots of a speed 3, strength 1 nuisance.

A cat's eye circlet would have done wonders for you, but I assume you have to do without (and not relocate the use of a cat's eye, for example.

Dash will make you use your cumbersome bow and still move, and the king's spear should be your main melee.

Also, bandages would have been great.

Please note that if you roll 10 on brain trauma with accept darkness, you can still for from it.

So, it really depends if you can hit it consistently enough before your first guy becomes a dreaded trophy (after that, it gets difficult), and if you get a lucky ai deck that makes you not very prone to infectious lunacy. If you start stacking frenzy on a paired katar or on a bone dagger, that guy is likely as good as dead.
 
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Jeroen van Loon
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Next to that I hope you learned from your earlier, unofficial attempts on the Butcher. Eventually you'll get a feel for his attack pattern and target preferences.

Use this to spread out the incoming damage over your team to get the most out of your armour point-pool.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Try not to end your characters turn next to the Butcher. A lot of his attack patterns ánd reactions can have some form of aoe attack around him.
Having 2 bows and a spear will help you greatly there. Though the hit chances are a bit mediocre and cumbersome-ness will limit your attack and move options somewhat.
 
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voltemands voltemands
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Why spread your armour so thin? Surely better to have two fully clad survivors (armour set bonuses)?
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Nick Wirtz
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Without spoilers, there are very good reasons why you shouldn't give the butcher easy targets.
 
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The Awaited King
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Dash, bandages and someone with a full rawhide set (it's better to have one character with full set than everyone having one piece).

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Tod Hostetler
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t3clis wrote:
If you avoid using those katars in pairs ...
...If you start stacking frenzy on a paired katar or on a bone dagger, that guy is likely as good as dead.


It's sounding like you don't approve of high speed weapons vs the Butcher. From that I infer that his Counterattacks are most to be feared (another argument for Dash over Dodge). We could backtrack and build another Tiger Claw arrow (instead of the second Katar) for a total of 4 TCA's between 2 Archers. Bearing in mind those Archers could have +1 Accuracy natural (we have 2 Accuracy +1's), with a bit of luck our team accuracy could stack as high as +4/+5... which sounds great to me!

Do you think there's any play for Frenzy at all in this matchup? We just scored it from that sweet crit on the Lion's Ding Dong, predictably the survivor that scored it for us paid the ultimate price. Maybe put it on the Spear? One of the Bows?

I'm still thinking Double Dash could be key to this fight, if we can just figure out a way to get the Priority Target on that hero, they could kite the Butcher for the rest of us.

Thanks for all the input from everyone so far. It's very much appreciated.
 
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Nick Wirtz
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It's not legal to duplicate non-weapons, so more arrows than bows are useless.
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Tod Hostetler
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
It's not legal to duplicate non-weapons, so more arrows than bows are useless.


Ummm.. what? My understanding is that the Tiger Claw Arrow IS technically the weapon you are using. You just can't use it unless you have a Bow in your grid. That's rules as I understand them.

It has it's own Speed / Accuracy / Strength just like any other weapon.

Also, and just for fun:

I tend toward reading Rules as Written in KD:M, even when I can guess that it's an oversight by the designer. There's enough rough stuff that happens to the Survivors that I think it's fair to exploit RAW when you find. That means that 'technically', at least in KD:M 1.0, a Tiger Claw Arrow doesn't suffer from Cumbersome.

The Bow is not the Weapon, the Tiger Claw Arrow is the weapon. Doesn't say Cumbersome on the TCA.
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Alessio Massuoli
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soldatdizzy wrote:
t3clis wrote:
If you avoid using those katars in pairs ...
...If you start stacking frenzy on a paired katar or on a bone dagger, that guy is likely as good as dead.


It's sounding like you don't approve of high speed weapons vs the Butcher. From that I infer that his Counterattacks are most to be feared (another argument for Dash over Dodge). We could backtrack and build another Tiger Claw arrow (instead of the second Katar) for a total of 4 TCA's between 2 Archers. Bearing in mind those Archers could have +1 Accuracy natural (we have 2 Accuracy +1's), with a bit of luck our team accuracy could stack as high as +4/+5... which sounds great to me!

Do you think there's any play for Frenzy at all in this matchup?


I should not be spoiling anything since this is your third time around, so I'll be direct to the point:
- butcher has 16 hit locations. If you hit with a frenzied paired katar, you are potentially drawing five cards in one attack. If one of these cards is the trap, you just wasted your entire attack and you are suffering the effects of the trap now. That's almost one in three chances.
- butcher reactions have no flow in them, so your only survival opportunity to dash away is between cards, not when triggering reaction.

- I think you mean claw head arrow, not tiger claw;

- arrows are weapons, if you equip two with the same name, the second one will keep attack profile and all its negative text, while it will lose all the bonuses. Old discussion: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1578221/duplicate-claw-head...
 
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Nick Wirtz
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t3clis wrote:
arrows are weapons
Mine says "item, ammunition, arrow"... was there errata somewhere?
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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No, I took the thread I referenced as correct without double checking (it's 3am at my time zone, we all can thank the fact that I have a baby boy for the fact that I'm replying )

So, no weapon keyword, so problem solved from start: you cannot legally carry two in the same gear grid with the same name

 
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Sam D
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Can you carry the crab spider? It is a resource card not a gear card. I didn't think you could carry them, outside of the flower knight expansion
 
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Uthrac
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Correct. If you do not spend the crab spider by the end of the Settlement phase, record it in Settlement storage and archive the crab spider.

Generally, you can only "consume" resource cards during the showdown or settlement phase to get any special benefit.
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