Erik Henry
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind—Einstein
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Not that this is the only place this is happening....

African-American Texas State Representative Eric Johnson has called for the removal of a plaque that's in the Capitol, just steps from his office, that says in part:

Quote:
We, therefore, pledge ourselves to preserve pure ideals to study and teach the truths of history (one of the most important of which is that the war between the states was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery).


Our brilliant governor replied:

Quote:
But we must remember that our history isn't perfect. If we do not learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it. Instead of trying to bury our past, we must learn from it and ensure it doesn't happen again. Tearing down monuments won't erase our nation's past, and it doesn't advance our nation's future.


But if those monuments lie about what actually happened, how in the hell does that help prevent us from repeating it!?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas-legislature/2017/08/16...
28 
 Thumb up
0.15
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, the Governor's statement's pretty silly. The response of the Speaker of the House was better, though it sounds like the review board he put together might have already reached some consensus that hasn't been made public yet.

But more important to the Governor's point - the monuments mean nothing in this context. Education does. So if the Governor is keen on getting history right, maybey he'll work to undo silliness like this. The Texas Board of Education likes playing politics with curriculum, so is he OK with that? If he really gives a damn, he'll stand up to that before he'll defend a plaque with an inaccurate statement.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christina Kahrl
United States
Unionville
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Expecting consistency, competency, or coherent thought from Governor Abbott might make for a long wait. He may still have the National Guard on alert for that Obama invasion...

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/02/403865...
12 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh, I expect nothing. Expecting something would indicate that I thought there was actual interest in "history" rather than "political posturing."
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
flag msg tools
CHA was my dump stat
badge
Snob of the People
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"We cannot allow this assault on our fake history to distract from our current fake moral crusade: transgender potty breaks."
20 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Khalid Shabazz
United States
NYC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Quote:
We, therefore, pledge ourselves to preserve pure ideals to study and teach the truths of history (one of the most important of which is that the war between the states was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery).

Good example of a catch-22. Anyone who doesn't agree to this pledge is not allowed to serve in the Texas legislature, and anybody who does agree should be deemed too ignorant to hold a public office.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erik Henry
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind—Einstein
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
crescent_gamer wrote:
Quote:
We, therefore, pledge ourselves to preserve pure ideals to study and teach the truths of history (one of the most important of which is that the war between the states was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery).

Good example of a catch-22. Anyone who doesn't agree to this pledge is not allowed to serve in the Texas legislature, and anybody who does agree should be deemed too ignorant to hold a public office.

It's a "Children of the Conderacy" pledge, not something that lawmakers have to agree to.
5 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Khalid Shabazz
United States
NYC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Erik17 wrote:
crescent_gamer wrote:
Quote:
We, therefore, pledge ourselves to preserve pure ideals to study and teach the truths of history (one of the most important of which is that the war between the states was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery).

Good example of a catch-22. Anyone who doesn't agree to this pledge is not allowed to serve in the Texas legislature, and anybody who does agree should be deemed too ignorant to hold a public office.

It's a "Children of the Conderacy" pledge, not something that lawmakers have to agree to.

My mistake.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rachel Simmons
United States
Los Altos
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That plaque is seriously mendacious. I wonder that they didn't go all-in and deny that there were any slaves in the south before the Civil War.
17 
 Thumb up
0.10
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The best thing about the 'doomed to repeat it' excuse is that it implicitly admits that the Confederacy was a terrible thing that we don't want to repeat ><
11 
 Thumb up
0.30
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lotus dweller
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
Erik17 wrote:

But if those monuments lie about what actually happened, how in the hell does that help prevent us from repeating it!?

If those in power were actually serious about people learning from history then putting the existing plaque under a transparent cover to indicate it's a historical object, and putting another plaque up explaining the history of the historical object, might work well in a limited way.
Much greater and more widespread understanding would result from the inclusion of this matetial in school curriculums.

However as those in power have no interest in people learning inconvenient things from history or upsetting their electors who favour an unreconstructed version of history then they will not take the path of spreading knowledge.

Rather I think they will gain far more and entrench white supremecist views by positioning themselves as victims who have had their cultural heritage either torn down against their will or falsely and unfairly maligned.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lotus dweller
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
bowen wrote:
That plaque is seriously mendacious. I wonder that they didn't go all-in and deny that there were any slaves in the south before the Civil War.

Strangely reminiscent of official South Africa history in the apartheid era.
The land was said to have been devoid of inhabitants, perhaps with the exception of a few Bushmen, prior to the arrival of Europeans. "The blacks" then moved into the area and so tensions and conflicts resulted.

cf "Trump is honest"
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
Si non potes reperire Berolini in tabula, ludens essetis non WIF.
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mb
This woman is expressing my views about whitewashing the Civil War quite well.

9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dearlove
United Kingdom
Isleworth
Middx
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pinook wrote:
bowen wrote:
That plaque is seriously mendacious. I wonder that they didn't go all-in and deny that there were any slaves in the south before the Civil War.

Strangely reminiscent of official South Africa history in the apartheid era.
The land was said to have been devoid of inhabitants, perhaps with the exception of a few Bushmen, prior to the arrival of Europeans. "The blacks" then moved into the area and so tensions and conflicts resulted.

cf "Trump is honest"

Well there is a slight degree of truth in what the Boers said. The San bushmen were the only people in the extreme south of the Cape. The Boers did then proceed to wipe them out and also created the Cape Coloured community in the process. DNA testing on Africaners would be interesting, to day the least, as some of the most extreme white nationalists probably have San DNA. As the Voortrekkers went north, they soon came into contact with Bantu peoples who they fought and conquered, except the Zulu who beat them. The Zulu empire is actually more recent than the presence of Africaners, but the Bantu ancestors of that empire arrived before the fourteenth century.
Since hunter gatherers have fairly low population densities the Cape might have seemed fairly empty to them, but it was still populated.
So the Boers did arrive before the Bantu in the Cape and the Bantu were moving South.
As for racial conflict, the Boers couldn't live even with the British, so were hardly likely to react to people they saw as inferior except by enslaving them.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lotus dweller
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
Thanks for the more detailed overview David.

DavidDearlove wrote:
... the Boers couldn't live even with the British, ...

I found out that a churl was a medieval Irish farm worker.

And I wouldn't want to appear churlish. So I won't say more than that I was told that it was the British who went after the departed Boers to start the war (and make the first concentration camps).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christina Kahrl
United States
Unionville
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wifwendell wrote:
This woman is expressing my views about whitewashing the Civil War quite well.



What makes it particularly amusing is that this meme arrived in the wake of the tack taken by a right-wing site or two in recent weeks, with their strident proclamations about how much neo-nazism and participation in their rallies will give its doughy, small-handed legions a dose of bad-boy charm with the ladies.

Little did they expect to see themselves getting purged from dating sites like OK Cupid, Sturmbannfuehrer Cantwell for example...
5 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.D. Hall
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
DavidDearlove wrote:
Pinook wrote:
bowen wrote:
That plaque is seriously mendacious. I wonder that they didn't go all-in and deny that there were any slaves in the south before the Civil War.

Strangely reminiscent of official South Africa history in the apartheid era.
The land was said to have been devoid of inhabitants, perhaps with the exception of a few Bushmen, prior to the arrival of Europeans. "The blacks" then moved into the area and so tensions and conflicts resulted.

cf "Trump is honest"

Well there is a slight degree of truth in what the Boers said. The San bushmen were the only people in the extreme south of the Cape. The Boers did then proceed to wipe them out and also created the Cape Coloured community in the process. DNA testing on Africaners would be interesting, to day the least, as some of the most extreme white nationalists probably have San DNA. As the Voortrekkers went north, they soon came into contact with Bantu peoples who they fought and conquered, except the Zulu who beat them. The Zulu empire is actually more recent than the presence of Africaners, but the Bantu ancestors of that empire arrived before the fourteenth century.
Since hunter gatherers have fairly low population densities the Cape might have seemed fairly empty to them, but it was still populated.
So the Boers did arrive before the Bantu in the Cape and the Bantu were moving South.
As for racial conflict, the Boers couldn't live even with the British, so were hardly likely to react to people they saw as inferior except by enslaving them.

Well, that justifies everything. Americans should use that as well -- vast stretches of the west were un- or under-populated. And we couldn't get along with the British as well.

Hey 'Muricans, we got our excuse!!!! Thanks Dave!!!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.D. Hall
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
Quote:
We, therefore, pledge ourselves to preserve pure ideals to study and teach the truths of history (one of the most important of which is that the war between the states was not a rebellion, nor was its underlying cause to sustain slavery).


What utter and complete crap. Of course, it's Texas, the Land of De-Nile. Slavery was a root cause in the 1836 rebellion against the Republic of Mexico, for God's sake. And certainly the Civil War. I mean, I love my cousins south of the Red, but damn, that's some intense denial. Willfully ignorant...which does tend to describe many Texans.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
lotus dweller
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
Avatar
remorseless1 wrote:
... And we couldn't get along with the British as well.

...

You too? What a coincidence!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.