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Runebound (Third Edition): Unbreakable Bonds» Forums » Rules

Subject: Co-op combat ? rss

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Michel Pomerleau
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Ok, didn't see anything on this. If it's written somewhere, I apologize. Here goes :

Q1 : When in a party, how does combat work ? Do all the heroes participate or is it just one combat at a time ? I just can't fathom having a 56 hit point dragon when playing 4 players.

Q2 : If it's one fight at a time, does boss life points reset after each fight ?

Q3 : If it is one at a time, apart from movement and coop skills (which are cool but not game changers for a tough fight), what is the advantage of forming a party ?

I tried a 2 player game where in the boss fight (necromancer, 18 life points), we were forming a party and the players and the boss all threw our runes and we went 1 token at a time, starting with the most initiative, then the second and the last. So each round of fight, the turn order was different. We applied this only for the boss fight. That really felt like party combat where we were 2 against the boss. In my opinion,that is the reason why boss life points are proportionate to number of players.

Although we won, the fight seemed much fairer than having 1 players going against 18 life points, which seemed impossible do beat without dying.

What is the official rule about this ?
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Donny Behne
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micpom wrote:
Q1 : When in a party, how does combat work ? Do all the heroes participate or is it just one combat at a time ? I just can't fathom having a 56 hit point dragon when playing 4 players.


This should be specified on the scenario card. I haven't seen the necromancer, but on Margath (dragon) each player receives a random enemy combat board - warrior, savage, etc - and fights against that. Damage is done to the boss. So when a player takes their turn, they deal all damage to the boss but fight against a unique set of boss tokens and corresponding card.

Go back to the scenario card and make sure you've read both sides.


Quote:
I tried a 2 player game where in the boss fight (necromancer, 18 life points), we were forming a party and the players and the boss all threw our runes and we went 1 token at a time, starting with the most initiative, then the second and the last. So each round of fight, the turn order was different. We applied this only for the boss fight. That really felt like party combat where we were 2 against the boss. In my opinion,that is the reason why boss life points are proportionate to number of players.

Although we won, the fight seemed much fairer than having 1 players going against 18 life points, which seemed impossible do beat without dying.


I went back and read the Vorakesh scenario card as well as party rules and I think I'm safe saying you played it incorrectly. Parties only affect movement and party skills. There is no group combat unless, as in the case with Margath, the scenario calls for it in which case it is specific in how it works. In Vorakesh, he's just a normal enemy. If a player enters combat with Vorakesh while in a party, they fight him one on one. Other players may elect to do so or do something else or leave the party.

Also, you need companions. As the card indicates, companions reduce Vorakesh's health by two for each one you have, to a minimum of 8. Get companions and it gets much easier.

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Q3 : If it is one at a time, apart from movement and coop skills (which are cool but not game changers for a tough fight), what is the advantage of forming a party ?


Parties may be required for the boss fight, as above, but more than anything else they are essential for preparing efficiently. The ability for a character to use one action to move, but move three other heroes, effectively four actions for the price of one, is huge. The party skills only add to the bonuses (like handing out free trophies to other heroes just because you're grouped when you got one).
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Tamas Toth
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This was the thing that I waited for the most and it didn't get made.
Villain vs All combat. So now we are thinking about a variant that does exactly that. That would be the real coop mode, not moving together...
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Rikkert Keldermann
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In the case of Margeth coop each player receives one of 4 random combat bords. Players alternatively play one combat round each against Margoth. All combat actions on the bord take place each round as usual. Note Margeth receives the extra token only against 1 player (not all 4). Party skills are in place as long as players are alive (e.g. player dies is no longer part of party).You keep alternating enemy/playee combat rounds until either Margeth dies or all players died.

Awaken
 
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Michel Pomerleau
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Alright, thanks guys. It seems I need to read the villain cards more carefully. Dont't get me wrong, I love everything about this expansion, except I feel they completely missed the mark for the the party rules.

So, If nothing is mentioned about party combat, then one at at time it will be with as many skills and special tokens possible. Got it. But isn't that just like before this expansion.

A group combat was cool to do and I hope to see a villain allowing such a fight in future expansions. I Just find it anti-climactic to be in a party and while you go at the villain, the others just chill out and watch the show with minimal or no participation. Talk about Group effort

Loll... Just picturing 4 heroes making a line to wait their turn to fight, hoping the first dude gets killed so he can have a go at it. Yaay co-op ! Hilarious.

Mind as well play it solo, makes more thematic sense to me. Otherwise I'll have to house rule some sort of party combat that makes the game more co-op than sharing a buck or a skill or a move, like actually fight together as a team.

What do you guys think ? Am I wrong ?
 
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Carlos Pérez Cantalapiedra
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As for the above comments, I think there is still room to create more co-op villains (or other scenario cards) like that of Margath. A good boss with some (surge-activated) power which deals damage to all heroes, or stuns those which fail mind (or whatever) test and cannot attack next combat round... It seems that they did a great expandable system but they are not taking many risks expanding it??
 
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Markus S
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I have tried a house rule where you get one random base token from one of your party members when doing combat. It´s helpful at the start of the game where enemies can be tough and gives the party more sense in combat but isn´t massively overpowered.
There is a party skill that allows you just that. If the party has that skill, I´ll just add another base token
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Michel Pomerleau
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Nice ! That makes sense. That way there is a combat advantage for making a party. I like it. I'll give it a try. Thanks Markus S
 
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STEPHANOS KOLOVOS
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hi there ,
I have tried a house rule. Whenever we managed to reach a boss ,the boss call one of their "henchman' so one of the party focus to fight the boss and the other-s heroes focus-es to the "henchmen".

 
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Jaime de Marcos
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I agree that there is no explanation about co-op combat and it does not make sense that other heroes just watch while the villain tears their friend to pieces, so...

We arranged a variant so that, if there is more than one hero fighting against the villain in the same hex (a warband in our scenario), each hero plays a combat round alternately against the villain, i.e. Hero1 and Villain throw the tokens and resolve, apply effects, then Hero2 and Villain (still the same combat) throw the tokens and resolve, apply effects, then Hero3 and Villain... until either Heroes are defeated, or the Villain is killed.

I understand that with other villains, this may not work, but for us it worked pretty well. Actually the last warband defeated 2 Heroes and it was only destroyed when 3 Heroes attacked together.
 
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Matt Asher
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jdemarcos wrote:
I agree that there is no explanation about co-op combat and it does not make sense that other heroes just watch while the villain tears their friend to pieces, so...

We arranged a variant so that, if there is more than one hero fighting against the villain in the same hex (a warband in our scenario), each hero plays a combat round alternately against the villain, i.e. Hero1 and Villain throw the tokens and resolve, apply effects, then Hero2 and Villain (still the same combat) throw the tokens and resolve, apply effects, then Hero3 and Villain... until either Heroes are defeated, or the Villain is killed.

I understand that with other villains, this may not work, but for us it worked pretty well. Actually the last warband defeated 2 Heroes and it was only destroyed when 3 Heroes attacked together.

Interesting...so that's like the final margath battle, but applying it for each villain - do you mean each time a monster card is drawn while performing the Adventure action whilst in a group?
 
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Chris J Davis
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jdemarcos wrote:
I agree that there is no explanation about co-op combat and it does not make sense that other heroes just watch while the villain tears their friend to pieces, so...

We arranged a variant so that, if there is more than one hero fighting against the villain in the same hex (a warband in our scenario), each hero plays a combat round alternately against the villain, i.e. Hero1 and Villain throw the tokens and resolve, apply effects, then Hero2 and Villain (still the same combat) throw the tokens and resolve, apply effects, then Hero3 and Villain... until either Heroes are defeated, or the Villain is killed.

I understand that with other villains, this may not work, but for us it worked pretty well. Actually the last warband defeated 2 Heroes and it was only destroyed when 3 Heroes attacked together.


Doesn't that make the game significantly easier, as the damage from the monster is spread around the heroes?
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Julia
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bleached_lizard wrote:
jdemarcos wrote:
I agree that there is no explanation about co-op combat and it does not make sense that other heroes just watch while the villain tears their friend to pieces, so...

We arranged a variant so that, if there is more than one hero fighting against the villain in the same hex (a warband in our scenario), each hero plays a combat round alternately against the villain, i.e. Hero1 and Villain throw the tokens and resolve, apply effects, then Hero2 and Villain (still the same combat) throw the tokens and resolve, apply effects, then Hero3 and Villain... until either Heroes are defeated, or the Villain is killed.

I understand that with other villains, this may not work, but for us it worked pretty well. Actually the last warband defeated 2 Heroes and it was only destroyed when 3 Heroes attacked together.


Doesn't that make the game significantly easier, as the damage from the monster is spread around the heroes?


Yeah, exactly my thoughts. If you play 4p, the poor monster needs to win 4 fights in a row (and then become champion of the pit?). Not to mention that this makes the game uneven with different player counts.
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Jaime de Marcos
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theashers wrote:

Interesting...so that's like the final margath battle, but applying it for each villain - do you mean each time a monster card is drawn while performing the Adventure action whilst in a group?


No, just for the final villain(s) (in our case, we played the Locust Swarm scenario).

I wouldn't do it for adventure-related monsters, since exploration is done individually.

I will check how it could apply to other scenarios and perhaps post it in the Variants forum.
 
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Jaime de Marcos
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bleached_lizard wrote:

Doesn't that make the game significantly easier, as the damage from the monster is spread around the heroes?


That's how it goes in comic books, right? The villain has a hard time when fighting all the Avengers at the same time, but he can rather easily handle them one by one.

But as I said, it is not necessarily easy. We faced the Trickster type of warband in Locust Swarm and the first attempt was made with 2 heroes (there were 3 players, the third one was too far away) and the warband defeated them. Also, if one Hero is defeated or flees, then it is much harder to beat. And if combat ends, the villain instantly recovers full health.

Still, yes, it is easier than fighting the villain one by one. But is this co-op play? If co-op is only about moving together and sending letters to each other, it seems pretty bland and uninteresting to me. Playing together also means fighting together.
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Michel Pomerleau
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That's exactly my point of this thread.

Advantage of forming a party : fights are easier, which is the whole point of banding together. And since the villains are tougher, then... it's ok

Disadvante of forming a party : You can't play if you're in the party the whole game. The players have to level up eventually by doing quests and fights on your own since you can't share the rewards.

The challenge of this is that you have to band together at the right time and seperate for questing at the right time. And plan ahead where esch character will be for the final battle. In my opinion, that's were the co-op game shines.

The only thing missing are good balanced coop fighting rules.
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