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Subject: The unkindest invasion rss

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Eric Raabe
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The exact situation regarding the common naval invasion of Greece by Rome has always seemed to rub some players the wrong way.

As has happened in several games, Rome builds up legions while Greece puts out several triremes. Eventually Rome reaches land military max out and buys 2 ships (the disposable invasion fleet). Greece has the waters covered, but that's no help in stopping the invasion. Then Rome launches the 2 ships and chooses not to combat (this is the key contention that's annoying people, no amount of fleets can block an invasion) and carries over the bulk of his army. The ships die at Greece's navy's hands the next turn, but Rome's already gotten an almost unstoppable toe-hold in Greece.

My question is, to put peoples concerns to rest, is this all perfectly legal? Is this the way naval invasion generally works in Mare Nostrum?
 
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Matthew M
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Re:The unkindest invasion
dead jawa (#29236),

The thing that should stop this from happening is that Rome's best target is Carthage and needs to depend on a strong Greece to keep Egypt in check.

-MMM
 
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Eric Raabe
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Re:The unkindest invasion
Well in almost all my games the Greek player has made the "interesting" choice of picking a fight with Rome. Rather than being the mouse in a game of cat and mouse, the Greeks have chosen to go on the offensive, and Rome has brought the pain every single time.
 
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Matthew M
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Re:The unkindest invasion
dead jawa (#29240),

So obviously it makes sense for Greece to continue that strategy. And how does Rome fare in these games?

Rome has little to gain by attacking Greece. Yes, it is easy, but for what payoff? The commodities are the same and the tax doesn't help build larger commodity sets. The ideal situation for both Rome and Greece are for them each to look south.

-MMM
 
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Eric Raabe
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Re:The unkindest invasion
Actually the most frequent outcome is for me as Rome to win. And I keep getting Rome by default as nobody else seems to pick it. But there does seem to have been some Greco-Roman rivalry that evolved that always causes us to butt heads.

We've had more than one game follow this formula: Greece starts making its navy and positioning ships like it's looking to invade Rome. Rome increases its commodity income and often loses military leader to Greece. Rome then ramps up the 2 card military purchases in an arms race with Greece. Rome then builds the 2 fleet invasion force and sweeps in and occupies, often taking both military and trade leader. Rome shuts down all trade, which locks everyone else out of usefull purchases, every other player's throwing away cards while Rome rebuilds its military and builds a navy. At the point when the other players start getting together a multinational force to take on Rome and unlock trade I blitz my whole army over to Carthage and occupy enough of Carthages built up spaces to buy two wonders in a single turn. After this it's either a matter of holding on for one more turn or choosing a huge trade value to insure getting enough of a variety out there to insure I get enough to win.
 
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Matthew M
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Re:The unkindest invasion
dead jawa (#29255),

"Getting enough variety out there" shouldn't be much help with competent trading phase play. The other players should be able to recognize what is needed for Rome to complete a game winning set and simply employ a trade embargo until those commodities are no longer available.

This is the same strategy that is used to keep Egypt from winning with taxes. With competent play it tends to keep everyone in it as sets are denied to leaders until there are too many leaders to hold down.

-MMM
 
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Eric Raabe
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Re:The unkindest invasion
Normally yes, that's the way it should happen. But the one time I won at the end by reopening trade I had a ton of doubles and triples but not quite enough for my last hero/wonder. By counting out what I had and what was availible, and after a little debate, we figured I could choose a trade amount high enough to force people to trade resources I didn't have and yet keep enough that I only needed 1 more resource to win the game, which I got on my first pick. Not every game would go this way, just this one did.
 
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