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Subject: 2017 Calgary (FallCon 30) No-Ship Math Trade: Discussion and Request Thread rss

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This is the discussion and request thread for the 2017 Calgary (FallCon 30) No-Ship Math Trade.

The trade's rules are in the GeekList's header; please read them there. This thread's rules are as follows:

Use this thread only for the following:
1 to request games for the trade
2 to discuss issues unique to this trade

In other words, be strongly advised that "discussion" does not mean "chit-chat"—please do not clutter the thread with chatter or basic how-do-I questions. (Call me old-fashioned, but I value things like a high signal-to-noise ratio, not to mention earnest attempts at self-education. Plus, we don't want people unsubscribing due to irrelevant/inane/repetitive posts.)

Also, please don't post duplicate requests; simply thumb an existing request where applicable.

I'll update the status of the trade here (all times -0600—MDT, in other words):

Math-trade progress:
2017-08-25, 11:02: Trade submitted to OLWLG for approval.
2017-08-25, 11:06: GeekList, this thread opened for public additions.
2017-09-14, 01:40: Offering Phase complete; Wants Phase active.
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Anthony Ferrise
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In an effort to allows others to 'thumb' entries - I'll list each request individually. Thanks for hosting the math trade!

First off - A Feast For Odin
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GIR, quickly, ride the pig!
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GIR, quickly, ride the pig!
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Similar to what I did last year, I will again volunteer to augment (not replace ) the various online resources on math trades for folks who may still be unclear on one or more aspects of how to participate.

I'll be attending a few gaming events between now and the offering deadline, and I will again forego some of my gaming time to answer questions, give guidance, and otherwise provide in-person assistance.

To better set expectations, here's what I'm offering:
• to answer questions based on whatever you've been reading or watching, with hands-on examples wherever possible
• to answer questions until you run out of them

...and here's when I'm offering it:
Fri, Sep 1, ~21:00
Sun, Sep 3, time TBD
Mon, Sep 4, time TBD
Sat, Sep 9, time TBD
(possibly other dates if interest warrants)

...and here's what I need from you to best help you:
• to GM me in order to let me know which session(s) you'd like to attend, to find out the venue (and to hammer out a mutually agreeable time for the sessions marked "time TBD")
• to bring some device (laptop, tablet—the bigger the screen, the better) that will display whatever you've been reading or watching on the topic. (If a printout is the best you can do, we'll work with it. )
• to come with questions (again, based on whatever you've been reading/watching)
• to arrive on time

Thanks again to
Darren Bezzant
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 whose suggestion I developed into this idea!
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Met w B Factor on Sunday and he helped me figure out what I was doing wrong in other math trades I'd been in....was a simple fix that I am sure a lot of people miss the first time.
After figuring that out, got to play a few games, so thanks again B!!! The help was appreciated, and getting to play some games on a Sunday, in a pub, was great!
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Yatsuo wrote:
Met w B Factor on Sunday and he helped me figure out what I was doing wrong in other math trades I'd been in....was a simple fix that I am sure a lot of people miss the first time.
After figuring that out, got to play a few games, so thanks again B!!! The help was appreciated, and getting to play some games on a Sunday, in a pub, was great!

My pleasure to help and to have met you as well!

The offer of assistance still stands for anyone who needs it. I will also extend the offer to cover assessment of condition for games—I won't assume responsibility for gradings, but I'd be happy to provide a sanity check of sorts.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure that I've replied to everyone who sent me a message, but if I somehow missed you, please kindly shoot me a reminder GeekMail (and a -2VP penalty)!
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The OLWLG tells me that we have 31.3 hours to go in the offering phase, and between work and other commitments, I don't see myself having the time or energy to conduct further courtesy reviews of listings.

This is therefore a general reminder that all rules nonetheless remain in full force, particularly Offering Phase, rule d10-4 which appears to continue to vex certain offerings. Most of us are familiar with the expression "your stick, your responsibility"—the same applies to math-trade offerings.

Thanks nonetheless to those who've taken pains to post their listings in compliance, even where it's meant tweaking one's listings from other trades!

Also, the offer of in-person assistance remains on the table for those who'd like to avail themselves of help during the Wants Phase. Just GM me.
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Dan D.
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B Factor wrote:
The OLWLG tells me that we have 31.3 hours to go in the offering phase, and between work and other commitments, I don't see myself having the time or energy to conduct further courtesy reviews of listings.

This is therefore a general reminder that all rules nonetheless remain in full force, particularly Offering Phase, rule d10-4 which appears to continue to vex certain offerings. Most of us are familiar with the expression "your stick, your responsibility"—the same applies to math-trade offerings.

Thanks nonetheless to those who've taken pains to post their listings in compliance, even where it's meant tweaking one's listings from other trades!

Also, the offer of in-person assistance remains on the table for those who'd like to avail themselves of help during the Wants Phase. Just GM me.

Thanks for all your efforts, B Factor!
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After roughly 1.75 hours(*) after the Offering Phase deadline, I can now report that the trade GeekList is locked down for editing of any sort, and want lists can now be submitted via the OLWLG.

(*) This delay was solely due to my having to go through the offerings to red-card several offerings that were in contravention of Offering Phase, rule d10-4, as previously advised. (I'd really like to have had that extra 2 hours sleep tonight, including the time setting up my new computer that didn't otherwise need to be up and running this evening, but doing all this from a touch device would have been excruciating.)

Anyway, all parties interested in the affected items are hereby cautioned against considering them for their wants, as they simply can't trade this time around—I've already sunk the time; save yours.
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Anthony Ferrise
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B Factor wrote:
After roughly 1.75 hours(*) after the Offering Phase deadline, I can now report that the trade GeekList is locked down for editing of any sort, and want lists can now be submitted via the OLWLG.

(*) This delay was solely due to my having to go through the offerings to red-card several offerings that were in contravention of Offering Phase, rule d10-4, as previously advised. (I'd really like to have had that extra 2 hours sleep tonight, including the time setting up my new computer that didn't otherwise need to be up and running this evening, but doing all this from a touch device would have been excruciating.)

Anyway, all parties interested in the affected items are hereby cautioned against considering them for their wants, as they simply can't trade this time around—I've already sunk the time; save yours.



B Factor - can you please clarify - are the red items barred from trading? There are items in that group that I would like to trade for and I (personally) believe their descriptions are adequate for me to get a good idea of the product I am receiving.

These games shouldn't be 'barred' from trading. It should simply be the traders (person creating the want-list's) choice.

Just my personal opinion.
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Christian Bekolay
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I would agree with Anthony, I prefer a "buyer beware" policy. Less work for you B factor, and I think I can determine on my own if I want to trade based on someones own description (which often is even more helpful than the Rule 4)
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Niko
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I'm just a bystander so feel free to ignore my opinion, but the rules where clear from the beginning and no one said anything.
Changes should be considered for next time, but rules should not be changed retroactively.
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Anthony Ferrise
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Ze_German_Guy wrote:
I'm just a bystander so feel free to ignore my opinion, but the rules where clear from the beginning and no one said anything.
Changes should be considered for next time, but rules should not be changed retroactively.


That's completely fair. Can't disagree with that.

Can B Factor please confirm that these items are OUT of the trade and we should not be including them on our wants list?
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Dan D.
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I am also of this opinion:
Turtle_Stew wrote:
I prefer a "buyer beware" policy. Less work for you B factor, and I think I can determine on my own if I want to trade based on someones own description (which often is even more helpful than the Rule 4)

And am in the same boat as Anthony here:
tonyf55 wrote:
There are items in that group that I would like to trade for and I (personally) believe their descriptions are adequate for me to get a good idea of the product I am receiving.

but respect B Factor's final decision, as moderator, in the end.
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fakewindow wrote:
Turtle_Stew wrote:
I would agree with Anthony, I prefer a "buyer beware" policy. Less work for you B factor, and I think I can determine on my own if I want to trade based on someones own description (which often is even more helpful than the Rule 4)

I am also of this opinion but respect B Factor's final decision, as moderator, in the end.


I'm about to list a few games and also agree with the above yet respect B Factor's decision.

Personally, I'm glad this Math Trade is done in person to avoid shipping costs, but also to figure out any condition discrepancies that might pop up. I've made the mistake of mislabelling a game's condition (both higher and lower) and apart from personal responsibility, hope that if anything did go awry in a local trade it'd be easier to make right.
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Sorry for not being able to reply 'til now. Work's been busy all day, and my occasional break didn't allow me to collect my thoughts. I'll only have bandwidth to answer Anthony's initial comment at this time, which it seems fair to term a representative counterargument.

tonyf55 wrote:
B Factor - can you please clarify - are the red items barred from trading?

I apologize if my penchant for sporting terminology (e.g., red card) is leading to confusion with how the OLWLG formats things.

As to this specific question, the items with a red bar in Step 3 of the OLWLG are simply what they say they are: "Note: there are comments from other users other than the item's owner on this item that may be unanswered."

It's therefore important to click the provided link to read the actual comments. Some of these comments have been addressed by the "offerer", but no actual GeekList comment (response) was made by the user in question, which is what OLWLG "looks" for when determining what to flag for this formatting.

If this answer is still not clear, please don't hesitate to seek clarification; in no way do I wish for others' legitimate offerings to be mistaken for the ones that have been disqualified.

Quote:
There are items in that group that I would like to trade for and I (personally) believe their descriptions are adequate for me to get a good idea of the product I am receiving.

These games shouldn't be 'barred' from trading. It should simply be the traders (person creating the want-list's) choice.

Just my personal opinion.

I fully respect your opinion and your right thereto.

I would not be willing to undertake any change of this kind without the full, explicit, and unreserved support of all participants. However, with less than 4 full days before wants are due, I don't see that there's sufficient time to solicit that support, entertain questions, etc., without eating hugely into that window. And the results need to be available with enough time for any travellers to plan what they will and won't be packing with.

So, to provide all with a sense of clarity, I'll hold to my rulings.

I'll welcome discussion on the merits of both the rules and my rulings after the trade; I may create a separate thread, but most likely I'll continue the discussion here, since once the trade is done, any parties uninterested in further discussion can simply unsubscribe. It's at that point that I'll be happy to explain the broader reasoning for both rules and rulings, and also to respond to specific points made by others, including Christian.

Thanks for your understanding in this matter!
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I respect your stance - makes sense to me.

Thanks for the response.
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