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878: Vikings – Invasions of England» Forums » Rules

Subject: How does Northumbrian Discord work? rss

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Spence
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Northumbrian Discord says "Before resolving this battle in any of the northern Shires of Carlisle, Durham, York or Manchester, the Thegn and Housecarl Units resolve one Battle Dice roll against each other."

So, how exactly does this card work? Who rolls first? Somebody must roll first, because if one side rolls all flees or command descisions the battle would be canceled before the other side even rolls! So can you actually command decision out of the battle, or do you just count hits or flees?
 
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Kilo Delta
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Without intervention/clarification from Academy I would assume the choice of who rolled first would be up to the english players. And because its not specific, it seems that all icons would be "in play". Thats at least how we're playing it until Academy steps in.
 
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Spence
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When I played the game earlier this evening I gave the choice to my opponent on who rolls first and made it so Command Decisions were not counted. It was 2 Thegns against 2 Housecarls, he chose Housecarls's to roll first and rolled two hits eliminating the Thegns so the Thegns didn't get to roll.
 
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Lee a.k.a. "Loyal Lee"
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Logical conclusions all, but I would want to roll all the dice (thegn and housecarl) and apply the results simultaneously in the hit/flee/command order.

Yes that could effectively wipe out the English army, but you know..., "discord"...

It would be nice if we could get an official ruling though.
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Josiah Leis
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We resolved it as Lee says, by rolling simultaneously and then resolving hits > flee > command. I'm not sure why people are thinking that Command Decisions don't count, there is nothing on the card that indicates that so I think it should be fine if the English are allowed to Command Decision out of the battle if they get the results they want.

It would be good to get some official clarification though.
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Eric deRuiter
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This card was our one rules question in our first game. We actually had one English faction present only so we ruled that they rolled just to see if they got any flee results.
 
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Eric Avila
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Easy.
Get a bunch of Geordies liquored up, and then toss them a football. arrrh The rest will take care of itself.
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Chris Schenck
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I'd bet money that they roll simultaneously.
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Chris
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I don't like this card. It's good, but situational. In our second game I played as the Vikings, entered and conquered Northumbria and much of Mercia. The English had NO units in Northumbria and so when I drew this card, I had to sit on it for many rounds.

There REALLY needs to be a rule where you can discard an Event card during a Faction's Draw Phase.
 
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Chris Schenck
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Sir Christopher wrote:
The English had NO units in Northumbria and so when I drew this card, I had to sit on it for many rounds.

Land a Viking leader on the Northumbrian shore then. That'll draw some troops up there very quickly. If it doesn't, then you get some uncontested cities to control. That's a win/win.
 
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Chris
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I don't think you understand - the English didn't have any units there because I already had taken Northumbria.

I think this is a very viable Viking strategy - land in Northumbria and start your first 1-2 turns taking it and Northern Mercia. That way, your future armies can protect your front and only a "conversion" card will put English units behind your lines/back in Northumbria.

The main point is, this card literally was useless and sat in my hand for 3 rounds taking up space. There absolutely needs to be a rule that allows you to discard 1 event card during the Draw Phase (even if it means you don't get to redraw it for another entire round, that would still be better than sitting on a card that takes up space).
 
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Brian Jones
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Sir Christopher wrote:

I don't think you understand - the English didn't have any units there because I already had taken Northumbria.

I think this is a very viable Viking strategy - land in Northumbria and start your first 1-2 turns taking it and Northern Mercia. That way, your future armies can protect your front and only a "conversion" card will put English units behind your lines/back in Northumbria.

The main point is, this card literally was useless and sat in my hand for 3 rounds taking up space. There absolutely needs to be a rule that allows you to discard 1 event card during the Draw Phase (even if it means you don't get to redraw it for another entire round, that would still be better than sitting on a card that takes up space).


The event card deck is telling you this is not a good strategy. Like many games using scripted events, a player would be wise to follow the lead of the event deck.

Now, you may think that this is not good game design (I am sort of on the fence, too much scripting like this is a bad thing in my opinion) but it is an element in many historical war games.

Edit: best example of this is a game like Twilight Struggle - there are some things you just should not do in that game unless/until the relevant event card makes an appearance.
 
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Anton Nieuwkoop
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Can't you just play the card and do nothing because there is no battle? This way you can get rid of the card.
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Brian Jones
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antoi wrote:
Can't you just play the card and do nothing because there is no battle? This way you can get rid of the card.


Good question, in some games this is allowed and in others not. Probably will need a ruling from Academy in general if cards can be played if some/none of their conditions are met.
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Josiah Leis
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Sir Christopher wrote:

I don't think you understand - the English didn't have any units there because I already had taken Northumbria.

I think this is a very viable Viking strategy - land in Northumbria and start your first 1-2 turns taking it and Northern Mercia. That way, your future armies can protect your front and only a "conversion" card will put English units behind your lines/back in Northumbria.

The main point is, this card literally was useless and sat in my hand for 3 rounds taking up space. There absolutely needs to be a rule that allows you to discard 1 event card during the Draw Phase (even if it means you don't get to redraw it for another entire round, that would still be better than sitting on a card that takes up space).


Also bear in mind you can customize your deck so if you find the card unhelpful, remove it and put something else in.
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Chris
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Absolutely, being able to customize the deck is the simplest solution.

It would be great if Academy let us know if you can discard an event card for no effect.

Finally, as for my strategy, I've only played the Vikings once, so I can hardly say whether it was a good strategy or not. That being said, that is the ONLY card in the base set (1-12) that is specific to Northumbria. That to me doesn't seem like something to build one's strategy around.

So far I've only seen the Vikings win games, so it's hard for me to know what strategy is actually bad for them... (or rather, what strategy is good for the English...)

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uwe eickert
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You may play a card with no effect and may discard an unwanted event card when you are drawing cards. This will be clarified better in the updated rules available online.

When resolving North Umbrian Discord the English roll battle dice simultaneously. The FAQ entry is shown below:

"Northumbrian Discord (Norsemen Events 11 & 17)
Before a Battle on the Norsemen Turn, the Vikings select 1 northern Shire (Carlisle, Durham, York, or Manchester). Thegn and Housecarl Factions each roll their Battle Dice once. Apply all Hit results simultaneously, then Flee results simultaneously, then finally Command Decisions simultaneously."

Gunter
Academy Games

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John Menn
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Could you clarify the interplay between Northumbrian Discord and the Spy card? It was a bit unclear what order things happen in. Spy allows reinforcements to join “at the beginning of any Viking battle” per the card clarification, so does that happen first, creating the larger pool of Troops to fight each other in their Discord? Or do the original troops fight each other and then the spy takes effect? Or does it depend on when the cards are laid down? If the attacking norsemen play Northumbrian Discord, does that take effect, and then can spy still be played? Or is the battle considered to have begun once the Discord is resolved, such that it’s too late to use spy? Does the norsemen player need to wait to see if spy is being played before playing Northumbrian Discord? Please Help!!!
 
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