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Subject: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Contest Ready rss

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mike heim
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This is a dice-placement game inspired by Roll Through The Ages, Advanced Civilization, and Sharp Shooters!


Two to four players have 7 turns (15-45 minutes) to build their City-State's military, civics, inventions, philosophies, and government to gain a cultural victory.

Solitaire Play pits you against two AI opponents for six turns.

Respectfully submitted for consideration in the 2017 Mint Tin Design Contest.


Aegean Civ v1117 pdf download (low art at this time) 0.97MB

By Mike Heim

Components Required

1 Mint Tin
24 cubes (6 of each color)
4 small dice
NO COINS NEEDED AS OF v0803

Included in PDF
Rulesheet (pg 1)
6 Progress Cards (pg 2)
4 City-State Cards (pg 2)
6 Decline Cards (pg 3)
24 Culture Cards (pg 4)


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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Reserved for elbow room.

Previous (obsolete) versions

Aegean Civ v9026 pdf download (low art at this time) 0.97MB
Aegean Civ v9024 pdf download (low art at this time) 0.97MB

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3umNGEUhhNRV3lIYndheUQycGc...
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Eric Miller
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Don't know if you need more elbow room or not... here goes...!

The setup:



No tin. Took the "up to 4 players" to mean 1-4 players, but saw nothing specific about solo. Maybe that's coming? A redesigned city-state card maybe?

I did play all 4 players. Worked pretty well- saw a few bits on the Progress cards that could use some attention- no names on the tracks and one of them had larger pips than the others.

(Aside-> As a PnP'er, I find it easier when the cards share the same cut lines. Don't remember some of your other builds, but maybe for the next version?)

Game flowed pretty well. Got stuck just rolling several times. The "pass" option might need some more thought- I chose to pass several times when I just didn't want to do anything.

I had only 3 culture cards on the final turn. In fact, here's what the start of that final turn looked like:



The one off to the side is the one "shared" by all. Can't remember now which action caused that.

Blue ended up winning. Since Blue had the most military, blue would take 5 every time.

Except for a bit of extra dice rolling, it did click along. Maybe add a few more culture cards? Maybe have a special set of 4 that come out in the last turn only?

I'll be following along to see what comes next...
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Thank you so much Eric.
Your blind playtesting has always been invaluable (I think I used that term correctly) to the evolution of my games.

Some changes will be:

Each Player will start with 1 Military Card.

During Phase 2, you cannot pass until you place at least one die. If you cannot allocate, you must reroll all four dice, again, and again, until you do place at least 1. This means that once the last track is only 1 away, that next player must lock it.

Military Culture cards will allow an extra die to be rolled instead of reshuffling the unclaimed cards.

Two of the Wonders will be changed.

Decline effects will be more difficult to avoid.

------------
Some clarifications about your game:
Took the "up to 4 players" to mean 1-4 players, but saw nothing specific about solo.
The game plays 2 to 4. I need to fix that. However, a solo variant is intriguing and I can probably wrap some mechanics around it.

I find it easier when the cards share the same cut lines.
Good point. I'll tighten them closer to each other.

I had only 3 culture cards on the final turn.
Hopefully the new Decline effects will put more cards back into the pool. But since I've extended the game by one turn, I like the idea of having a set of "last turn" cards. It'll be a group of leaders.

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Eric Miller
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
You're welcome!

And I like the "leaders" being the last round. That's a good end to the game.
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
v0803 Uploaded

Added Starting Army cards to game setup.

Added Leaders to the game for play in Round 7.

Removed coins from game. Culture Powers can be used once per turn instead of once per round, allowing for more options/control during a player's turn.

Changed Military Culture Power to "Pass without rolling" in order to avoid Decline Card effects.

Changed Invention Culture Power to "Advance on track 1 or 3."

Made Decline Card penalties harder to avoid.

Individualized Wonder Cards.

----
I'm still keeping with the "pass if you cannot place" rule. Although there will be quite a bit of passing towards the end of Phase 2, it creates quite a bit of tension between players--waiting to see if that 4 or 5 is locked before they have to roll again.
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Robert B
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Subscribed! Hope to see a solo variant -
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
v0804 is up.

A Solo variant is included in v0804 (but not thoroughly tested yet).
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
"Solo variant" — and you had me subscribed!
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
SOLO VARIANT CLARIFICATIONS v0805

The solo player may still use his Culture Card Powers once per turn just as in the multiplayer game. The AI players do not get this option, but is hopefully balanced by their Results Table.

AI City-State cards remain face down (hidden) until the end of the game. Only the player's city-state card is face up. The AI city-states are only revealed at the end of the game while adding up Culture Points, since some of their Culture Cards will be worth Bonus Points.

During an AI city-state's turn, roll 2d6 and consult the following table found in the rules. The die inside the table result let's you know which track is advanced by the AI player (unless that track is locked). If the result is the black die with the number 1 in it, advance once on the lowest unlocked track.

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Dave Daffin
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
kzinti wrote:
v0804 is up.

A Solo variant is included in v0804 (but not thoroughly tested yet).

I will try to put together the components and test the solo variant. Ancient-Greece-themed games are an interest of mine!
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Thanks. I think this game shines a bit more with 3-4 players due to the table talk, promises, and backstabbing, but I understand the convenience of a solo variant.
I hope you find it difficult yet enjoyable.
MH
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Quote:
Solitaire Play pits you against two AI opponents for six turns.
Thanks for thinking of folks like me.
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
New rule forthcoming for solo play. If I don't get to updating it by the time you play, use this as an errata.

*All Wonders are worth 2-3 Culture Points and have no requirements.


V0910 (and later versions) has now addressed this.
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Dave Daffin
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
kzinti wrote:
New rule forthcoming for solo play. If I don't get to updating it by the time you play, use this as an errata.

Thanks. Will do.
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Ayden Lowther
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Hi Mike.

I've just downloaded your game and looking forward to playing it this weekend, hopefully. I will try and get you some feedback asap

Ayden (part of the Tinmates team)
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Nick Shaw
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Just played a 2 player game (solo, 2-handed, to learn the game). Great game; a very enjoyable experience, in a super-quick time! Very impressive how you've packed some really interesting decisions into such a small design space. Well done.

Was an interesting play, too. Green had 3 or less culture cards right up until round 4, with Red way ahead. Then a few good dice rolls in the final rounds and Green managed to sweep a lot of culture cards up, and ended up with 9 to Blue's 8. Green won by having 2 leaders who gave big bonuses (and a third which was useless but prevented Blue getting it). Green won 16 to 9.

EDIT: Just reading your notes from above, and I see Wonders are now worth +3 regardless, so Blue would have gotten another 3. Not enough to win, but a tighter victory.

I had some rules queries for you:
- If I choose to re-roll 6s, what do I do if I roll a 6 again? Can I re-roll that, or is it just left as-is (and does nothing)?

- If I complete a Decline track, and I have to lose a culture card, or I complete the Conquer Progress track and get to swap a culture card with another player, or I win the Cultural Diffusion track, and either I or my opponent(s) don't have ANY culture cards, do I just skip the action?

- Can I lose/swap my starting military card when an effect causes me to lose/swap a culture card?

- Rule 4.1 says "Return your Culture Cards face up". That made no sense to me until I'd read the rule about Culture Powers FAQ where you flip a used power face-down. I originally thought the rule was asking me to return all the culture cards in front of me back to the unclaimed line, which obviously made no sense. Could you rephrase this bit, maybe "Flip any used culture cards face up" to avoid confusion? And perhaps mention that you can use culture card powers somewhere in the Phase 2 bit, as it's not mentioned at all until the FAQ near the end of the rules.

- Culture Powers FAQ - mentions the shared culture card (From Cultural Diffusion); I couldn't find a culture card with that mentioned, then in round 6 the Progress Card that mentions that power came out and it finally made sense. Could you note perhaps that Cultural Diffusion is on a Progress Card?

- Do the Leaders cards with the type symbols on count as symbols of that type, when working out if you have most of those symbols?

- Golden Age - if that comes up in Round 7, when there are no culture cards left in the draw pile, does the winner of track 1 skip the action, or do they shuffle the discard pile, then draw 2 from that shuffled pile and pick one?

Looking forward to trying out the solo AIs now!

Some suggestions for small improvements for clarity, if you're interested:
- Could you put the track-winner actions next to the tracks, for tracks 2, 3 and 5? Just little icons would do, to help players remember, so track 2 = take 1 for you, give 1 to your opponent, track 3 = take 1 for yourself, track 5 = lose 1. You could also have an arrow from tracks 1 and 4 to the respective right-hand instructions?

- Is there a way to mark the cities' bonus cards in some way to easily show they are linked to a specific city? Like putting the city icon on each matching culture card? Matching up purely by the names felt a little cumbersome, especially when trying to see what the opponent(s)'s cities had on them. Or are they already colour-coded that way (I couldn't tell very well; my printer decided to bleed the colours all over the place so some cards are a little unintentionally multi-coloured!).
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Thank you for playing Nick.

I originally meant this to be a multiplayer game that should shine with 3-4 players,but there is more feedback opportunities if I make a solo variant. However, I really think that the way you played (with two players) is the best way to test out the mechanics.

----------

I've updated and uploaded a new version with some clarifications to your questions:

- If I choose to re-roll 6s, what do I do if I roll a 6 again? Can I re-roll that, or is it just left as-is (and does nothing)?
Nothing happens. Those 6s rolled a second time have no effect and cannot be used.

- If I complete a Decline track, and I have to lose a culture card, or I complete the Conquer Progress track and get to swap a culture card with another player, or I win the Cultural Diffusion track, and either I or my opponent(s) don't have ANY culture cards, do I just skip the action?
The action is skipped.

- Can I lose/swap my starting military card when an effect causes me to lose/swap a culture card?
Yes.

- Rule 4.1 says "Return your Culture Cards face up".
I've changed the wording to "flip."

- Do the Leaders cards with the type symbols on count as symbols of that type, when working out if you have most of those symbols?
Leader cards are worth no Culture Points. They only double the Culture Points of other like cards.

- Golden Age - if that comes up in Round 7, when there are no culture cards left in the draw pile, does the winner of track 1 skip the action?
Nothing happens. It's at the end of the game so a Golden Age will not help.

------------------

Your Suggestions were excellent and I've incorporated them into the game:

(1) There is a short description about what each track does on the Progress and Decline cards now.

(2) Each Culture Card is now marked with the symbols of the City-States that get bonus points for it at the end of the game. This will add another layer of strategy and bluffing, as it will be possible to deduct which City-States your opponents are by which cards they're collecting.
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Nick Shaw
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Thanks Mike, glad my feedback was useful!

One clarification: Re your reply to: "- Do the Leaders cards with the type symbols on count as symbols of that type, when working out if you have most of those symbols?
Leader cards are worth no Culture Points. They only double the Culture Points of other like cards."

Don't think I explained that well enough. Will explain in more detail: green had picked up a leader for winning one of the Progress tracks. Green also completed the first decline track, which said he'd lose a culture card unless he had most X symbols. Green and blue both had 1 culture card with that symbol, but green also had just got the leader with that symbol on it. Does that mean green had 2 symbols, thus had the most, so could ignore the decline effect?
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Thanks.
I'll clarify that in the rules and on the cards so that it reads "The only effect leaders have on the game is at the end when doubling certain cards.
I'll make leaders their own color and remove the specialty symbol at the bottom.

In the scenario you described, Green only had one Culture Card of that type (since the leader is a "Leader" card and not a Philosophy, Government, Civics, or Invention card.)
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Brian Hoier
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
You said in the components:

24 cubes, 5 of each color

24 is not divisible by 5. Typo?
 
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mike heim
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Good catch...6 of each color.
It was updated correctly in the rules, just not in the OP.
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Harshad Deshmukh
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
This looks really interesting! Looking forward to testing it out
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
If possible, 3 or 4 players for best results!
 
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Re: [WIP] Aegean Civ [2017 Mint Tin Design Contest] Component Ready
Had a 2-player game of this last night at our playtest meetup group (it was a great end-of-meetup 30-min 'filler').

Game played very smoothly again; the new icons on the cards linking to the cities they are wanted by was very useful - thanks for adding them.

Final score was: 20 to 1 (I had the 1). I had pretty bad luck of rolls all through the game; my opponent kept winning the good stuff and I kept getting hit by the bad stuff, which meant he had more culture card powers to manipulate the dice results whereas I had barely any, meaning he kept getting more good stuff and I kept losing anything I'd gained.

Final tally of culture cards: I had 1 culture card and 2 leaders (who gave me no bonuses); my opponent had 12 or so culture cards and 1 leader.

So the issues we discussed with what happened:
- There's a kind of 'rich get richer' issue, prevalent possibly more with just 2 players, where the early winner of the good stuff gets more powers to allow him to get more good stuff etc. It feels like there should be some kind of a catch-up mechanic, at least for 2.

- Some of the culture card powers were super-powerful in our game. The one allowing you to treat all rolled 6s as any number was uber-powerful at times; if you rolled all 6s, you'd guarantee immediately winning a good track. The one allowing advancing up track 1 or 3 one step didn't feel too powerful, but if you had 2 of them AND the wild-6s AND the 'change a 5 to a 2' then you could almost complete all 3 good track in a single turn. Felt too powerful in combination.

My opponent suggested that maybe some of the more powerful culture cards, if they stay as powerful as they are, should perhaps have some negative effect too, e.g. the one that advances you one step on track 1 or 3 should also advance you on track 4, and possible mirror that for the wild-6s one, pushing you up on track 5 if you use it. That would balance the powers a bit I think, and would make you stop and think about using multiple powers in one turn. Alternatively, only allow one power to be activated per turn?

Anyway, we enjoyed our play, and it played perfectly within 30 minutes.
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