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Does Single Reactor Ignition fullfill the Empire's Victory condition if used on the Rebel Base?
 
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conedguy wrote:
Does Single Reactor Ignition fullfill the Empire's Victory condition if used on the Rebel Base?


If the space theater is won by empire Yes.
Otherwise not.
 
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Chris
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True.

But now this leads me to an interesting situation: If the Death Star flies into the HIDDEN Rebel Base system with other space units only and DOES NOT reveal the base (but there are ground units in the system that are not at the REBEL BASE space), and then fires the Single Reactor, the units in the REBEL BASE space are safe from this as the base has not yet been revealed!

Always carry some ground units with your Death Stars! ;-)


Don't mind me -- I don't have my expansion set yet, I was talking out of my ass without knowing anything about what the cards say! LOL whooops
 
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Witold G
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conedguy wrote:
Does Single Reactor Ignition fullfill the Empire's Victory condition if used on the Rebel Base?


If the base is already revealed when the Single Reactor Ignition is revealed:

Imperial victory. There are no Rebel ships in the system, otherwise you couldn't reveal Ignition; Rebel ground units are destroyed by Ignition.



If the base is not revealed when the Single Reactor Ignition is revealed:

Imperial victory if there were no ships in "Rebel Base" space. Rebel ground units are destroyed by Ignition.

It's more complicated if there were ships in "Rebel Base" space, since card states that first you reveal base (first part of ability) which triggers the combat in this particular situation, then destroy ground units (second part of ability). So we have two possibilities:

- Rebels win space battle, Death Star is destroyed, no Imperial Victory as there are still Rebel units in the system,

- Rebels lose space battle, all Rebel ships are destroyed, Ignition destroys ground units, Imperial victory.




The only uncertainty in case combat is triggered is: what is the timing of Rebel ground units being destroyed by Ignition?

Three theoretical possibilities:
#1. Combat is triggered by first part of ability, but the second part waits until combat is resolved. There will be no ground battle, but Rebel ground units can be used to match the unit requirements on some of the space tactic cards. But even if Rebels win space battle, the ground units are still destroyed afterwards - Ignition's second ability doesn't say "in case Death Star is still in the system after combat is resolved, destroy ground units" or anything like that.
#2. Combat is triggered by first part of ability, but the second part is also resolved before combat starts. Meaning Rebel ground units are destroyed and cannot be used for unit requirements on space tactic cards.
#3. Same as #1, but after Rebels win space battle, the ground units are not destroyed. No Death Star = no reactor to ignite ("thematic" interpretation).



Card for reference:

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Quote:
Three theoretical possibilities:
#1. Combat is triggered by first part of ability, but the second part waits until combat is resolved. There will be no ground battle, but Rebel ground units can be used to match the unit requirements on some of the space tactic cards. But even if Rebels win space battle, the ground units are still destroyed afterwards - Ignition's second ability doesn't say "in case Death Star is still in the system after combat is resolved, destroy ground units" or anything like that.
#2. Combat is triggered by first part of ability, but the second part is also resolved before combat starts. Meaning Rebel ground units are destroyed and cannot be used for unit requirements on space tactic cards.
#3. Same as #1, but after Rebels win space battle, the ground units are not destroyed. No Death Star = no reactor to ignite ("thematic" interpretation).


I agree with everything you said prior to the 3 possibilities.

In my mind it is #2.
The only rebel units that manage to escape are the ships and they have to fight for the survival of the "base" in the game
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Private Blinky
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IIRC, I think there's a 'golden rule' in the main rulebook that requires the full resolvement of any mission or combat must complete before any byproducts or consequences of the undertaken action can be resolved (so that would mean no combat mid-mission/action unless the mission/ability directly states it)

Number 2 for the win (at least, the Imperials hope so....)

 
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Witold G
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PrivateBlinky wrote:
IIRC, I think there's a 'golden rule' in the main rulebook that requires the full resolvement of any mission or combat must complete before any byproducts or consequences of the undertaken action can be resolved (so that would mean no combat mid-mission/action unless the mission/ability directly states it)

No such rule as far as I'm aware. At least not in this particular FFG game.

Although I did wonder in the past if any combat triggered by mission's ability (like Incite Rebellion) happens "during a mission" or not.
 
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Perf wrote:
PrivateBlinky wrote:
IIRC, I think there's a 'golden rule' in the main rulebook that requires the full resolvement of any mission or combat must complete before any byproducts or consequences of the undertaken action can be resolved (so that would mean no combat mid-mission/action unless the mission/ability directly states it)

No such rule as far as I'm aware. At least not in this particular FFG game.

Although I did wonder in the past if any combat triggered by mission's ability (like Incite Rebellion) happens "during a mission" or not.


What other missions have text 'after' when the combat would happen?
 
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Private Blinky
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Perf wrote:
PrivateBlinky wrote:
IIRC, I think there's a 'golden rule' in the main rulebook that requires the full resolvement of any mission or combat must complete before any byproducts or consequences of the undertaken action can be resolved (so that would mean no combat mid-mission/action unless the mission/ability directly states it)

No such rule as far as I'm aware. At least not in this particular FFG game.

Although I did wonder in the past if any combat triggered by mission's ability (like Incite Rebellion) happens "during a mission" or not.


Well, that just bakes my noodle, as I could of sworn there was something in definetly worded in the rules or faq that was along those lines ensuring no mid-resolution shenaniganns.


As it stands, I've sent in a question to FFG for confirmation on the generality of whether a game state change can interrupt a mission's or ability's resolution within the process of resolving it, as well as the specific 'single reactor ignition' scenario with Rebel ships showing up after base reveal. Will let you know.
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Private Blinky
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THE RESULTS ARE IN!!! Official clarifications from FFG

As for the ruling of our lovely new contender, Single Reactor Ignition...

Corey K wrote:
For the “Single Reactor Ignition,” you would fully resolve the card. Then, if revealing the base caused rebel ships to appear in the system, you would resolve a combat.
Simply put, no short-order scramble in space to try and beat the danger egg or cause it to fold in advance of frying the planet


As for the 'golden rule' in that any 'immediate' triggers interjecting during mid-mission or action card resolution (eg "Incite Rebellion" as Perf suggested) do not occur UNTIL the card/ability is fully resolved...

Corey K wrote:
This is the general resolution rule for Star Wars Rebellion,
Great! Was good to re-affirm; resolve the mission/card as read first, then deal with the aftermath...

Corey K wrote:
but there may be some exceptions.
...wot?? Well, what exceptions are there? That means it's still a possibility! Don't leave it hanging like that! (I'm hoping that's just a 'get out of rules jail free' remark, and that there isn't actually any confirmed edge cases that already do make a player to break mission resolution mid-process)


One thing to consider about all this is when a combat initiates as a byproduct of a game action other than direct declaration, who gets assigned to the roles as the "Active Player" and "Opponent"? I presume that the Active Player who initiated the action that casued the combat overlap to occur would be deemed the attacker; and if so that means with the ever-so-slight combat advantage for the Opponent in the expansion, it's a very subtle deterrent that I can stand to appreciate.

EDIT: Incorrecly used wrong terms for identifying players during a combat situation; thanks to those who pointed it out.
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Dan P
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PrivateBlinky wrote:
One thing to consider about all this is when a combat initiates as a byproduct of a game action other than direct declaration, who gets assigned to the roles as the attacker and defeneder? I presume that the person who initiated the action that casued the combat overlap to occur would be deemed the attacker; and if so that means with the ever-so-slight defender combat advantage in the expansion, it's a very subtle deterrent that I can stand to appreciate.
The game doesn't actually define "attacker" and "defender" - those are just familiar and convenient terms for us to use. All that matters is the "Current player" - that is the player whose turn it currently is. In any combat, both sides resolve one attack per round by rolling dice and assigning damage, starting with the current player (unless the order has been flipped by a tactic card). I can't think of a situation where it is unclear who the current player is.
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Witold G
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Could you quote the full question and answer from Corey for context? Thanks. meeple

PrivateBlinky wrote:
One thing to consider about all this is when a combat initiates as a byproduct of a game action other than direct declaration, who gets assigned to the roles as the attacker and defeneder?

This one is quite clear from base game rules.

RR p. 06, "Current Player" section:
"The player currently resolving his turn is the current player."

"Attacker" and "defender" are commonly used terms, but base game rules use only "current player" and "his opponent", respectively. (Expansion introduces term "defender", though, without explicit definition.)

As for what the turn is:

RR p. 06, "Command Phase" section:
"During the Command Phase, players take turns activating systems or
revealing missions."
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Bobb Feta wrote:
I can't think of a situation where it is unclear who the current player is.

During Assignment Phase (Catch Them by Surprise) or at the end of Command Phase if combat is triggered by base relocation/reveal.

Although I probably wouldn't call it unclear, more like "not explicitly defined in the rulebook".
 
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Perf wrote:
Bobb Feta wrote:
I can't think of a situation where it is unclear who the current player is.

During Assignment Phase (Catch Them by Surprise) or at the end of Command Phase if combat is triggered by base relocation/reveal.

Although I probably wouldn't call it unclear, more like "not explicitly defined in the rulebook".


So what does it mean?

With advanced combat, use ozzels card.. who rolls first? Empire right?
 
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Bobb Feta wrote:
PrivateBlinky wrote:
One thing to consider about all this is when a combat initiates as a byproduct of a game action other than direct declaration, who gets assigned to the roles as the attacker and defeneder? I presume that the person who initiated the action that casued the combat overlap to occur would be deemed the attacker; and if so that means with the ever-so-slight defender combat advantage in the expansion, it's a very subtle deterrent that I can stand to appreciate.
The game doesn't actually define "attacker" and "defender" - those are just familiar and convenient terms for us to use. All that matters is the "Current player" - that is the player whose turn it currently is. In any combat, both sides resolve one attack per round by rolling dice and assigning damage, starting with the current player (unless the order has been flipped by a tactic card). I can't think of a situation where it is unclear who the current player is.


1 situation that came to mind:
Rebels turn, they attack an imperial fleet, the empire retreats from the battle to an unoccupied planet, the ground troops discover the rebel base, battle starts there, who is the attacker? Technically the rebels were the current player, but they are not the attackers.

Also if the empire left units in the original system, which combat is resolved first?
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jooice wrote:
Bobb Feta wrote:
PrivateBlinky wrote:
One thing to consider about all this is when a combat initiates as a byproduct of a game action other than direct declaration, who gets assigned to the roles as the attacker and defeneder? I presume that the person who initiated the action that casued the combat overlap to occur would be deemed the attacker; and if so that means with the ever-so-slight defender combat advantage in the expansion, it's a very subtle deterrent that I can stand to appreciate.
The game doesn't actually define "attacker" and "defender" - those are just familiar and convenient terms for us to use. All that matters is the "Current player" - that is the player whose turn it currently is. In any combat, both sides resolve one attack per round by rolling dice and assigning damage, starting with the current player (unless the order has been flipped by a tactic card). I can't think of a situation where it is unclear who the current player is.


1 situation that came to mind:
Rebels turn, they attack an imperial fleet, the empire retreats from the battle to an unoccupied planet, the ground troops discover the rebel base, battle starts there, who is the attacker? Technically the rebels were the current player, but they are not the attackers.

Also if the empire left units in the original system, which combat is resolved first?

Also, should the Rebel base be revealed "immediately" (i.e. before the current combat is finished, if there still are some units left behind)?
 
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Herman92 wrote:
jooice wrote:
Bobb Feta wrote:
PrivateBlinky wrote:
One thing to consider about all this is when a combat initiates as a byproduct of a game action other than direct declaration, who gets assigned to the roles as the attacker and defeneder? I presume that the person who initiated the action that casued the combat overlap to occur would be deemed the attacker; and if so that means with the ever-so-slight defender combat advantage in the expansion, it's a very subtle deterrent that I can stand to appreciate.
The game doesn't actually define "attacker" and "defender" - those are just familiar and convenient terms for us to use. All that matters is the "Current player" - that is the player whose turn it currently is. In any combat, both sides resolve one attack per round by rolling dice and assigning damage, starting with the current player (unless the order has been flipped by a tactic card). I can't think of a situation where it is unclear who the current player is.


1 situation that came to mind:
Rebels turn, they attack an imperial fleet, the empire retreats from the battle to an unoccupied planet, the ground troops discover the rebel base, battle starts there, who is the attacker? Technically the rebels were the current player, but they are not the attackers.

Also if the empire left units in the original system, which combat is resolved first?

Also, should the Rebel base be revealed "immediately" (i.e. before the current combat is finished, if there still are some units left behind)?


i think it should....but yeah this is a weird situation.

in the old combat system you would probably finish your original battle first, since the tactic cards need to be shuffled between battles, but in this the new combat system what cards are available will really be affected by this.
this will also potentially have an effect on retreats
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