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Subject: Thread locking in a community forum rss

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Dylan Thurston
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cbazler wrote:
dthurston wrote:
cbazler wrote:
... it was great you guys made an LGBT+ forum, but disappointing when that forum was quickly hidden from the front page after an outpouring of criticism. ...
Is the Rainbow BGGers forum hidden from the front page in some way I'm not aware of? Which forums can show up in the top "Forums" box?

Rainbow BGGers do show up in the "Community" box on the front page, a little bit farther down.
Sorry, I meant to say "Gaming Forums on the front page," where W&G is located.
My understanding is that, if W&G were created now, it would be part of the "Community" group of forums, but that W&G was created before that Community section existed.

(More broadly, I think Rainbow BGGers is reasonably discoverable now. I did meet someone at a gaymer gathering at Gen Con who was surprised to learn about it, though.)
 
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Brutilus wrote:
I think an edit / apology for this phrasing was in order and would have defused some of the situation.


I don't even think most care about an apology or edit. I am just bothered with claims that it was not personal to him when it very clearly was. Especially in a way like that and that was not the only post that made it very personal.

Not to say that the reactions to him aren't understandable or even justified (I am not going to pass judgment on that part of it), but to say that the original thread kept it completely unpersonal and he left simply because of response to what he wrote just is not reflective of reality.

In other words, to explain with an example - if one of my kids provoked the other one into hitting or some other inappropriate behavior, "I did not hit him" is not a true statement. "I hit him because he deserved it" is a completely different question which is up for debate. I am just not willing to let an assertion in the first camp fly just because the second statement may be true.

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reddish22 wrote:
Brutilus wrote:
I think an edit / apology for this phrasing was in order and would have defused some of the situation.


I don't even think most care about an apology or edit. I am just bothered with claims that it was not personal to him when it very clearly was. Especially in a way like that and that was not the only post that made it very personal.

Not to say that the reactions to him aren't understandable or even justified (I am not going to pass judgment on that part of it), but to say that the original thread kept it completely unpersonal and he left simply because of response to what he wrote just is not reflective of reality.



And THIS is why locking a thread and starting a new one will never work. How many times have you seen the exact same comment at page 5 that you've seen at page 1? No one reads the whole thread normally, and the number of people who are going to go to a new thread, see that this is a continuation of an old one, and then wade through pages of old comments that can't even be directly replied to will be minimal. Additional pages and hoops will ALWAYS reduce desired throughput whether this is in online retail (my background) or just reading through non-tabbed/traditional forum posting style. There's all this emphasis on personal responsibility, and it frankly requires a more optimistic view of humanity than I could hope to have.

What does this quote specifically have to do with the whole "not reading a thread"? The same person apologized five posts later on that same page. EDIT: (which I guess only address the ageism part and not the Mormonism)

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/26837369#26837369
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reddish22 wrote:
Brutilus wrote:
I think an edit / apology for this phrasing was in order and would have defused some of the situation.


I don't even think most care about an apology or edit. I am just bothered with claims that it was not personal to him when it very clearly was. Especially in a way like that and that was not the only post that made it very personal.
I agree that comment is very easy to read that way. It was pretty quickly called out for that, too.

(I apologize for the hedging, the follow-up comments in the thread make the situation more murky. Ultimately what matters more is how a comment is received, not what was initially meant.)
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natureslayer wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
Brutilus wrote:
I think an edit / apology for this phrasing was in order and would have defused some of the situation.


I don't even think most care about an apology or edit. I am just bothered with claims that it was not personal to him when it very clearly was. Especially in a way like that and that was not the only post that made it very personal.

Not to say that the reactions to him aren't understandable or even justified (I am not going to pass judgment on that part of it), but to say that the original thread kept it completely unpersonal and he left simply because of response to what he wrote just is not reflective of reality.



And THIS is why locking a thread and starting a new one will never work. How many times have you seen the exact same comment at page 5 that you've seen at page 1? No one reads the whole thread normally, and the number of people who are going to go to a new thread and then wade through pages of comments will be minimal. Additional pages and hoops will ALWAYS reduce desired throughput whether this is in online retail (my background) or just reading through non-tabbed/traditional forum posting style.

What does this quote specifically have to do with the whole "not reading a thread"? The same person apologized five posts later on that same page.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/26837369#26837369


No she did not. She apologized for the comment on his age, not his religion.

Quote:
I use "good old boy" in this chase to refer to (usually rich) (usually white) men who are connected to systems of patriarchal privilege and are perfectly comfortable wallowing in it. Not all older men are good old boys, and not all good old boys are older. Most of the good old boys I've met in person were 18-22, when I was in college.

I am sorry if I implied that boomers are characterized by cluelessness. That wasn't my intent, but on a re-read I totally see how it would come across this way. My apologies.
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natureslayer wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
Brutilus wrote:
I think an edit / apology for this phrasing was in order and would have defused some of the situation.


I don't even think most care about an apology or edit. I am just bothered with claims that it was not personal to him when it very clearly was. Especially in a way like that and that was not the only post that made it very personal.

Not to say that the reactions to him aren't understandable or even justified (I am not going to pass judgment on that part of it), but to say that the original thread kept it completely unpersonal and he left simply because of response to what he wrote just is not reflective of reality.



And THIS is why locking a thread and starting a new one will never work. How many times have you seen the exact same comment at page 5 that you've seen at page 1? No one reads the whole thread normally, and the number of people who are going to go to a new thread and then wade through pages of comments will be minimal. Additional pages and hoops will ALWAYS reduce desired throughput whether this is in online retail (my background) or just reading through non-tabbed/traditional forum posting style.

What does this quote specifically have to do with the whole "not reading a thread"? The same person apologized five posts later on that same page.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/26837369#26837369


The apology you link to actually says nothing about the comment about his religion. Apology for one inappropriate comment does not necessarily equate to the other.

Quote:
I use "good old boy" in this chase to refer to (usually rich) (usually white) men who are connected to systems of patriarchal privilege and are perfectly comfortable wallowing in it. Not all older men are good old boys, and not all good old boys are older. Most of the good old boys I've met in person were 18-22, when I was in college.

I am sorry if I implied that boomers are characterized by cluelessness. That wasn't my intent, but on a re-read I totally see how it would come across this way. My apologies.


ninja'd but I want to leave it to show that I very clearly DID read the entire thread.
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natureslayer wrote:
Brutilus wrote:
I think an edit / apology for this phrasing was in order and would have defused some of the situation.


And THIS is why locking a thread and starting a new one will never work. How many times have you seen the exact same comment at page 5 that you've seen at page 1? No one reads the whole thread normally, and the number of people who are going to go to a new thread and then wade through pages of comments will be minimal. Additional pages and hoops will ALWAYS reduce desired throughput whether this is in online retail (my background) or just reading through non-tabbed/traditional forum posting style.

What does this quote specifically have to do with the whole "not reading a thread"? The same person apologized five posts later on that same page.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/26837369#26837369


Also, NatureSlayer, I just reread the thread twice to make sure that the problematic phrasing was not corrected.

Has anyone considered approaching one of the RainbowBGG founders as it were to be a moderator for the comunity? I think that MamaPapillon, DragonsDream, and dlthurston have shown to be pretty level-headed and generally shown the judgement needed to be good mods...

Edited: spelling
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The thread was also locked in less than a day, so it's not like she wouldn't have apologized or edited if given the chance. I'm guessing based on her swift and genuine contrition to the ageism comment (look at how she acknowledged the problem with her comment and then apologized based on the specific information given! Weird how she was able to do so without storming off the site and blaming it on warriors) that if someone had brought up the use of his religion, she would have been the same way. But now that the thread's locked, there's no chance of that.
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dthurston wrote:
(More broadly, I think Rainbow BGGers is reasonably discoverable now. I did meet someone at a gaymer gathering at Gen Con who was surprised to learn about it, though.)

FWIW, no matter how discoverable you make something at a website, many people will not discover it. E.g. I recently saw someone who's been a user for a dozen years and knows how to do bold face in a post but did not know how to make a larger Font Size in a forum post recently, despite them both being equally discoverable right above the text entry box. (To be clear, I don't say this to mock the user - I'm sure there are "obvious" discoverable things I don't know either.) There are people who don't know how to "SEARCH Board Game" at BGG despite it being at the top of almost every page. Etc...
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natureslayer wrote:
The thread was also locked in less than a day so it's not like she wouldn't have apologized or edited if given the chance. I'm guessing based on her swift and genuine contrition (look at how she acknowledged the problem with her and then apologized based on the specific information given! Weird how she was able to do so without storming off the site and blaming it on warriors) that if someone had brought up the use of his religion, she would have been the same way. But now that the thread's locked, there's no chance of that,


Look, I'm not going to play the "who is more at fault game" with you. I'm not trying to attack that specific poster at all - I didn't even bring it up specifically until I felt I had to to show that I wasn't misleading people based on your claims.

That wasn't my point in posting. All I was trying to say is that the assertion "it was never personal" is demonstrably false. If you can't acknowledge that it maybe stepped over the line a few times there, there's not a lot more to discuss on the issue.
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This is kinda synthesizing responses to Octavian and Syvanis.

I'm brought back to my problem with nontransparent enforcement and the way it breaks down trust. We don't SEE those bans, we have no way of knowing that they happened, and if the thread is successful they will just be back once the 24 hours is up. It's completely invisible, and if it has a material effect on our experience of the site, it's not something we can perceive directly.

I'm sure this is happening, although it's impossible to determine to what extent. It's kinda something we just have to take on faith, and frankly it's cold comfort when the same people keep showing up month after month.

Regarding shit stirrers not getting their way, I generally have not seen this to be the case across the site. We have to be constantly mindful not to engage with trolls or defend ourselves from harsh comments lest the thread be locked or dropped to RSP. The RSP threat is less in a specific community forum like Rainbow BGGers, but that overall atmosphere of "Do not defend yourself lest you lose your thread and have your discussion silenced" is still pervasive.

I'm open to the idea that the absence of the threat of RSP will make a significant difference in the effectiveness of derailing as a tactic, but we really didn't get off on the right foot here. Perhaps people who frequent W&G can chime in with how they feel about the effectiveness of derailing and threadlocking in a more established community that's similarly exempt from getting RSP'd? If the general vibe there is that it works pretty well, trolls aren't a significant problem, and when they appear the way they are dealt with feels fair, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here.
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natureslayer wrote:
The thread was also locked in less than a day, so it's not like she wouldn't have apologized or edited if given the chance. I'm guessing based on her swift and genuine contrition to the ageism comment (look at how she acknowledged the problem with her comment and then apologized based on the specific information given! Weird how she was able to do so without storming off the site and blaming it on warriors) that if someone had brought up the use of his religion, she would have been the same way. But now that the thread's locked, there's no chance of that.


The next two threads refer to "culture" and "religion", specifically. I loved Scooby's suggested rephrasing:
Quote:
I'm not sure a lot of people know he's a mormon, so I would have gone with "the old white dude with the suspenders"


 
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I don't follow all of the smaller W&G threads, but I do follow several of the main ones, and I've seen a concerted effort made not to engage people who come in to make trouble. People have been pretty good at flagging and ignoring. It can be tough not to defend someone or something, but it also minimizes the negativity brought to the thread. The person isn't amplified and repeated. Also, once a few people flag it, it collapses so that people coming to the thread won't see it (unless they choose to open it).
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Brutilus wrote:
natureslayer wrote:
(which I guess only address the ageism part and not the Mormon)


Thanks for acknowledging the mistake with an edit.


... and I just realized how snarky that could came across.

Apologies, natureslayer. I really did mean that it was good of you to acknowledge my point by editing your post.

Thank you.
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dthurston wrote:
cbazler wrote:
dthurston wrote:
cbazler wrote:
... it was great you guys made an LGBT+ forum, but disappointing when that forum was quickly hidden from the front page after an outpouring of criticism. ...
Is the Rainbow BGGers forum hidden from the front page in some way I'm not aware of? Which forums can show up in the top "Forums" box?

Rainbow BGGers do show up in the "Community" box on the front page, a little bit farther down.
Sorry, I meant to say "Gaming Forums on the front page," where W&G is located.
My understanding is that, if W&G were created now, it would be part of the "Community" group of forums, but that W&G was created before that Community section existed.

(More broadly, I think Rainbow BGGers is reasonably discoverable now. I did meet someone at a gaymer gathering at Gen Con who was surprised to learn about it, though.)
I totally understand why the W&G regulars resisted the move to the Community, but I think the resistance was counterproductive.

Pete (really thinks the Community could ultimately be a pretty happening place)
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Brutilus wrote:
Brutilus wrote:
natureslayer wrote:
(which I guess only address the ageism part and not the Mormon)


Thanks for acknowledging the mistake with an edit.


... and I just realized how snarky that could came across.

Apologies, natureslayer. I really did mean that it was good of you to acknowledge my point by editing your post.

Thank you.


I'm used to other forums (or at least I used to before they switched commenting systems RIP Disqus (which is also partly why I've been unnecessarily aggressive in tone, for that used to be my primary spleen outlet and I've been without one, and for that I apologize and need to do better)) where I'd edit after posting regularly. I need to get out of that habit on here since the number of times I've gone back and wanted to change something (usually in the middle where having an "EDIT:" would break up the flow (as if that's not what I'm doing anyway with these parentheticals, but that's another thing entirely)) after pressing submit. I definitely should go back and acknowledge that that is in fact an edit in response so it doesn't look like the later posts called me out for nothing (and I can fix another typo I just saw).
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reddish22 wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
cbazler wrote:

I totally agree, but it bears reminding people that HE left the site, offended that other people were offended.


That is not why he left. He left because of the accusations and labels thrown at him, including suggestions to damage and hurt his business. Not to mention personal attacks about his religion.

I'm not going to defend his initial post because I found it in bad taste, but I do not think that the response was thrown his way was warranted. I guess if you want to say, he deserved it because he's a misogynist, that's a position to take, but I do not think hate begetting more hate is appropriate.

I am not at all trying to downplay the issues that were raised in the Rainbow BGG forum and the unique challenges there, because I do not have the same experiences that you do. I do think there are issues regarding implicit and, unfortunately still in this day and age, explicit bias, that we do not have to accept. But not accepting does not necessarily allow personal attacks, labels, and disparaging in my eyes (from any side).

Edit - Also to be clear, I do think Sandy should have posted some kind of apology rather than just leaving BGG. But I can understand, given the amount of personal negativity aimed at him (and understandably at the things that he said) why he chose to do so.

his religion was mentioned but not attacked. in fact, people who were on the "he's sexist" side made a point to not disparage his religion. Let's be clear, he had had previous run ins with moderation and he left now because he was called out for something he wrote.


It was not mentioned in a positive light, if that's what you're getting at. I don't see how you can read that particular post to do anything other than implying all members of that faith are bigoted.

I'm not supporting his decision to leave nor the words he wrote initially, but that does not mean that I have to automatically support some of the responses to him personally.


The thread was locked before I saw the responses regarding my comment about his religion. I didn't have a chance to respond in that thread, so I will do so here:

It was not my intent to attack Sandy for his religion. I saw it, along with his age, as a mitigating factor. My initial assumption based on the quote out of context was that he was some sort of MRA, but knowing who he was made me revise that assumption: I know longer thought that he was acting maliciously. I thought that he most likely legitimately didn't understand the problem with what he said.

In other words, his age and his religion improved my image of him and lead me to give him the benefit of the doubt where I had not before. I definitely characterized the joke itself in a harsh light, but very intentionally did not apply those harsh characterizations to Sandy himself: just because you make a shitty joke, that doesn't mean you're a shitty person, and lots of people make terrible jokes without realizing how harmful they can be.

In any case, it certainly was not received the way I meant it. I worded that post carelessly and failed to accurately convey what I meant or how his religion factored in to what I was trying to say. I apologize for that lack of care, and I wholeheartedly apologize to anybody I made to feel attacked because of their religion. Frankly, I should have known better: carelessness and even a passing reference to region are a really bad combo.
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
We don't SEE those bans, we have no way of knowing that they happened, and if the thread is successful they will just be back once the 24 hours is up.

Just as a note, a 24-hour ban is only the lowest level of punishment. Subsequent offenses escalate that length. I expect that for this kind of offense, it would take very few to earn a permanent ban.

(None of that obviates your primary point about visibility.)
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:


In any case, it certainly was not received the way I meant it. I worded that post carelessly and failed to accurately convey what I meant or how his religion factored in to what I was trying to say. I apologize for that lack of care, and I wholeheartedly apologize to anybody I made to feel attacked because of their religion. Frankly, I should have known better: carelessness and even a passing reference to region are a really bad combo.


I can totally read it the way that you meant it, but I still appreciate you acknowledging that it probably was not in the best taste. For what it is worth, I was not in any way trying to single you out or call for a public apology. That was never my intention and I do feel bad if you felt that way. I was simply trying to suggest that Sandy could have reasonably read some of those comments in a very personal way. (And also for the record, your comment(s) were not even the ones I felt were most personal even if read in the wrong way.)
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
This is kinda synthesizing responses to Octavian and Syvanis.

I'm brought back to my problem with nontransparent enforcement and the way it breaks down trust. We don't SEE those bans, we have no way of knowing that they happened, and if the thread is successful they will just be back once the 24 hours is up. It's completely invisible, and if it has a material effect on our experience of the site, it's not something we can perceive directly.

I'm sure this is happening, although it's impossible to determine to what extent. It's kinda something we just have to take on faith, and frankly it's cold comfort when the same people keep showing up month after month.

Regarding shit stirrers not getting their way, I generally have not seen this to be the case across the site. We have to be constantly mindful not to engage with trolls or defend ourselves from harsh comments lest the thread be locked or dropped to RSP. The RSP threat is less in a specific community forum like Rainbow BGGers, but that overall atmosphere of "Do not defend yourself lest you lose your thread and have your discussion silenced" is still pervasive.

I'm open to the idea that the absence of the threat of RSP will make a significant difference in the effectiveness of derailing as a tactic, but we really didn't get off on the right foot here. Perhaps people who frequent W&G can chime in with how they feel about the effectiveness of derailing and threadlocking in a more established community that's similarly exempt from getting RSP'd? If the general vibe there is that it works pretty well, trolls aren't a significant problem, and when they appear the way they are dealt with feels fair, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here.


I think what they are trying to do is give a person that is banned the benefit of the doubt.

Now sometimes it will be obvious and a person should get banned on the spot without recourse. But I imagine often it is not extremely clear and a person is "innocent" so they have to take a "less offensive" stance to make sure that they aren't being harsh.

As mentioned earlier I was banned a few months ago for the following comment.

"Here is some GG, enjoy it while you bounce gently around the room."

Others took that as a threat of violence and red x'd me. A moderator agreed and gave me a 24 hour ban.

I was totally shocked. I try very hard to be a good person and getting called out for the comment was weird to me.

I went and looked at it and saw that it could be considered a threat, but it wasn't intended as such - it was song reference.

Another person and I were having a minor disagreement, but he had convinced me that he was right. I tipped him GG and made the comment which is a reference to a Phish song. His avatar was a picture of Phish so I knew he would get it.

What I am saying is that there is probably a lot of instances like this and being fully aware of everyone's point of view and meaning is almost impossible. You have to have a starting point. When someone continues to cause problems then they can be dealt with.

IN the above situation if I would have been publicly "banned" then I would have been embarrassed and demeaned though no fault of my own and would have been lessened in the eyes of the people who read the thread. Instead I was able to communicate my innocence and it was taken care of.

It seems like you have a legitimate concern. How can we protect people on both sides of the issue and still have a website dedicated to what we all are here for in the first place...games.

Do we "trust" the moderators of the site? My perspective has shown that we can. Others have obviously had a different experience. Do we need to change the rules to be more transparent? I think we can at least see there isn't much reason to believe that would help or it would cause new problems of it's own. Maybe we could Vote in moderators? We are gamers. I am sure that system could be manipulated to get someone really bad in charge. This is a tough nut to crack.

Right now moderators seem to say "Innocent until Proven Guilty" and perhaps though not the perfect way to handle it...it may be the best way.
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Syvanis wrote:
Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
This is kinda synthesizing responses to Octavian and Syvanis.

I'm brought back to my problem with nontransparent enforcement and the way it breaks down trust. We don't SEE those bans, we have no way of knowing that they happened, and if the thread is successful they will just be back once the 24 hours is up. It's completely invisible, and if it has a material effect on our experience of the site, it's not something we can perceive directly.

I'm sure this is happening, although it's impossible to determine to what extent. It's kinda something we just have to take on faith, and frankly it's cold comfort when the same people keep showing up month after month.

Regarding shit stirrers not getting their way, I generally have not seen this to be the case across the site. We have to be constantly mindful not to engage with trolls or defend ourselves from harsh comments lest the thread be locked or dropped to RSP. The RSP threat is less in a specific community forum like Rainbow BGGers, but that overall atmosphere of "Do not defend yourself lest you lose your thread and have your discussion silenced" is still pervasive.

I'm open to the idea that the absence of the threat of RSP will make a significant difference in the effectiveness of derailing as a tactic, but we really didn't get off on the right foot here. Perhaps people who frequent W&G can chime in with how they feel about the effectiveness of derailing and threadlocking in a more established community that's similarly exempt from getting RSP'd? If the general vibe there is that it works pretty well, trolls aren't a significant problem, and when they appear the way they are dealt with feels fair, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt here.


I think what they are trying to do is give a person that is banned the benefit of the doubt.

Now sometimes it will be obvious and a person should get banned on the spot without recourse. But I imagine often it is not extremely clear and a person is "innocent" so they have to take a "less offensive" stance to make sure that they aren't being harsh.

As mentioned earlier I was banned a few months ago for the following comment.

"Here is some GG, enjoy it while you bounce gently around the room."

Others took that as a threat of violence and red x'd me. A moderator agreed and gave me a 24 hour ban.

I was totally shocked. I try very hard to be a good person and getting called out for the comment was weird to me.

I went and looked at it and saw that it could be considered a threat, but it wasn't intended as such - it was song reference.

Another person and I were having a minor disagreement, but he had convinced me that he was right. I tipped him GG and made the comment which is a reference to a Phish song. His avatar was a picture of Phish so I knew he would get it.

What I am saying is that there is probably a lot of instances like this and being fully aware of everyone's point of view and meaning is almost impossible. You have to have a starting point. When someone continues to cause problems then they can be dealt with.

IN the above situation if I would have been publicly "banned" then I would have been embarrassed and demeaned though no fault of my own and would have been lessened in the eyes of the people who read the thread. Instead I was able to communicate my innocence and it was taken care of.

It seems like you have a legitimate concern. How can we protect people on both sides of the issue and still have a website dedicated to what we all are here for in the first place...games.

Do we "trust" the moderators of the site? My perspective has shown that we can. Others have obviously had a different experience. Do we need to change the rules to be more transparent? I think we can at least see there isn't much reason to believe that would help or it would cause new problems of it's own. Maybe we could Vote in moderators? We are gamers. I am sure that system could be manipulated to get someone really bad in charge. This is a tough nut to crack.

Right now moderators seem to say "Innocent until Proven Guilty" and perhaps though not the perfect way to handle it...it may be the best way.


I agree with innocent until proven guilty, and I do think that's the best way to handle it, but I don't think that hiding the results of people actions creates the incentives we want to create or fosters the environment we want to foster.

Transparent enforcement helps in situations like this as well. It helps keep moderation in line with the community, and understanding the way that moderation works helps keep the community in line with the rules. People follow rules better when they understand what they are, why they exist, and how they're enforced. We've got a situation where we cannot perceive how they are enforced, and that tripod is starting to wobble. This is doubly true for people who generally follow the rules are are rarely if ever moderated: we know moderation exists abstractly, but we can never tell if the mods are doing their job or someone just got bored and moved on to their next target.

I don't really understand how bouncing around a room ~gently no less~ could be taken as a threat, but also I don't have any context here. In either case I guess I just don't understand how this being discoverable information lessens you in anyone's eyes; if anything hearing your side of the story has endeared you to me, and reinforced my opinion that more transparent moderation is critical. Because TBH that reflects more poorly on the mod who banned you than it does on you.
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tumorous wrote:
Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
We don't SEE those bans, we have no way of knowing that they happened, and if the thread is successful they will just be back once the 24 hours is up.

Just as a note, a 24-hour ban is only the lowest level of punishment. Subsequent offenses escalate that length. I expect that for this kind of offense, it would take very few to earn a permanent ban.

(None of that obviates your primary point about visibility.)


That's fair. Like, yeah, aggressively berating people for being gay is going to get your permabanned real quick. Few people are stupid enough to do that on an account they care about.

Instead, we have a few people who are very good at targeting their shibboleths and dogwhistles such that they have plausible deniability when their bigotry is called out, people who are adept at skirting the line of being disruptive without doing anything egregious enough to earn permanent bans.

I'm assuming that the skilled trolls I'm talking about rarely get significant bans, and in any case their comments stay up forever.
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:

I don't really understand how bouncing around a room ~gently no less~ could be taken as a threat, but also I don't have any context here. In either case I guess I just don't understand how this being discoverable information lessens you in anyone's eyes; if anything hearing your side of the story has endeared you to me, and reinforced my opinion that more transparent moderation is critical. Because TBH that reflects more poorly on the mod who banned you than it does on you.


I think people saw we were in disagreement earlier in the thread and then the comment could be seen as "I am going to beat you up "bounce you around the room".

What I mean is if they would have publicly announced in the thread I had threatened another user and the resulting fall out of that. The way it was handled I wasn't publicly chastised.

But to be honest if we knew it would curtail problems than people in my situation would just have to suck it up and realize it is for the greater good overall.
 
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
tumorous wrote:
Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
We don't SEE those bans, we have no way of knowing that they happened, and if the thread is successful they will just be back once the 24 hours is up.

Just as a note, a 24-hour ban is only the lowest level of punishment. Subsequent offenses escalate that length. I expect that for this kind of offense, it would take very few to earn a permanent ban.

(None of that obviates your primary point about visibility.)


That's fair. Like, yeah, aggressively berating people for being gay is going to get your permabanned real quick. Few people are stupid enough to do that on an account they care about.

Instead, we have a few people who are very good at targeting their shibboleths and dogwhistles such that they have plausible deniability when their bigotry is called out, people who are adept at skirting the line of being disruptive without doing anything egregious enough to earn permanent bans.

I'm assuming that the skilled trolls I'm talking about rarely get significant bans, and in any case their comments stay up forever.


The only reason I would be afraid of public moderation for the whole of BGG is because I would be too afraid that it would become like this thread here. I would hate to see people publicly shamed for misplaced or insensitive words (though I have no problem with it for open and explicit hate). I feel like having all of that in public could just further divide the community into take sides on whether the moderation was right or warranted etc.

However, given this recurring thread of concern on the RainbowBGG boards it does seem like the current solution is not working. I am not sure what the solution is, but it is really disappointing to hear that some BGGers constantly come into that community simply to do things like that.
 
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reddish22 wrote:
The only reason I would be afraid of public moderation for the whole of BGG is because I would be too afraid that it would become like this thread here. I would hate to see people publicly shamed for misplaced or insensitive words (though I have no problem with it for open and explicit hate).
That was an intriguing thread. After looking at it briefly, I still don't know what the situation is. The "Redi Spades" account in question was apparently deleted along with all contributions to that thread. There is a new account by that name, created February 2017. (But there's also no reason to go into that history now.)
reddish2 wrote:
However, given this recurring thread of concern on the RainbowBGG boards it does seem like the current solution is not working. I am not sure what the solution is, but it is really disappointing to hear that some BGGers constantly come into that community simply to do things like that.
I do think something needs to change!

I would say that there have been some really great conversations in that forum.
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