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Subject: Zeros on Support Track rss

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Sean Burns
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Forgive a potentially dumb question, but what are the zeros for on the Support Tracks? Wouldn't a governor who has no support be replaced by a neutral governor?
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Larry Haskell
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DerMahler wrote:
Forgive a potentially dumb question, but what are the zeros for on the Support Tracks? Wouldn't a governor who has no support be replaced by a neutral governor?


No rules handy, but can't neutral governors have zero support?
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Wendell
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A player-owned province can have zero support. It sucks, because it makes it easier for some other sleaze-bucket would-be Roman emperor to take it away from you! Not that has ever happened to me, oh no.
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Brad Miller
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How could a player owned province have zero support? Doesn't zero support throw out the existing governor, replacing with a neutral at 1 support?
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Larry Haskell
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wifwendell wrote:
A player-owned province can have zero support. It sucks, because it makes it easier for some other sleaze-bucket would-be Roman emperor to take it away from you! Not that has ever happened to me, oh no.


Are there events that can cause a player's support to decrease outside of his turn? Mobs and pretenders reduce your support during your Check Support Phase and at the end of that, if your support is at zero, you lose control of the province. I haven't seen all the events yet, but that is the only way I can see having zero support during someone else's turn.
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Benji
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Windopaene wrote:
How could a player owned province have zero support? Doesn't zero support throw out the existing governor, replacing with a neutral at 1 support?


They can be zero - for an extremely short amount of time. Support reduction is step 1 of the support check phase, removing governors with zero support is step 3. I agree that the zero spots are not necessary, but they are not a problem either. Plus they let the local governors sleep better, because there is one more step below their actual support level

Edit: Larry above might be correct toothumbsup. I can't check the events at the moment
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Larry Haskell
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Benji68 wrote:
Windopaene wrote:
How could a player owned province have zero support? Doesn't zero support throw out the existing governor, replacing with a neutral at 1 support?


They can be zero - for an extremely short amount of time. Support reduction is step 1 of the support check phase, removing governors with zero support is step 3. I agree that the zero spots are not necessary, but they are not a problem either. Plus they let the local governors sleep better, because there is one more step below their actual support level

Edit: Larry above might be correct toothumbsup. I can't check the events at the moment


But a neutral governor could be at zero support and remain there as long as no one tried to place a governor there. Granted it seems unlikely, but it is a possible and meaningful game state.
 
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Benji
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gamedog wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
Windopaene wrote:
How could a player owned province have zero support? Doesn't zero support throw out the existing governor, replacing with a neutral at 1 support?


They can be zero - for an extremely short amount of time. Support reduction is step 1 of the support check phase, removing governors with zero support is step 3. I agree that the zero spots are not necessary, but they are not a problem either. Plus they let the local governors sleep better, because there is one more step below their actual support level

Edit: Larry above might be correct toothumbsup. I can't check the events at the moment


But a neutral governor could be at zero support and remain there as long as no one tried to place a governor there. Granted it seems unlikely, but it is a possible and meaningful game state.


Neutral Governors do not lose support. A neutral emperor can not have zero support as long as he is emperor.
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Brad Johnson
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In practice, the zero spots are not really necessary. I guess this is kind of an artifact from original playtest designs that was just always carried forward. However, it does give us the opportunity to consider certain ideas for "future expansion".
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Larry Haskell
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Benji68 wrote:
gamedog wrote:
Benji68 wrote:
Windopaene wrote:
How could a player owned province have zero support? Doesn't zero support throw out the existing governor, replacing with a neutral at 1 support?


They can be zero - for an extremely short amount of time. Support reduction is step 1 of the support check phase, removing governors with zero support is step 3. I agree that the zero spots are not necessary, but they are not a problem either. Plus they let the local governors sleep better, because there is one more step below their actual support level

Edit: Larry above might be correct toothumbsup. I can't check the events at the moment


But a neutral governor could be at zero support and remain there as long as no one tried to place a governor there. Granted it seems unlikely, but it is a possible and meaningful game state.


Neutral Governors do not lose support. A neutral emperor can not have zero support as long as he is emperor.


That would make it even more improbable!
 
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Wendell
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I took a province over that was at one support. It contained a barbarian. So, during support check, the level dropped one for containing an active barbarian - one drops to zero.

But we (four newbs) missed the next step, where the gov gets removed! Well, my neighbor took care of that by taking it over anyway.
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Sean Burns
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Well I feel better knowing I wasn't the only one confused by it. We just started using the zero space as a mnemonic device: "Remember to remove your governor and replace with neutral, because he's at zero!"
 
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Wray Ferrell
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DerMahler wrote:
Well I feel better knowing I wasn't the only one confused by it. We just started using the zero space as a mnemonic device: "Remember to remove your governor and replace with neutral, because he's at zero!"


That is the reason the zero survived. It was a handy memory device.
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Paul McConkey
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A Disperse Mob action can also reduce support in your province to zero during your turn. Then you would only need a single yellow point to Increase Support back up to one.
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Brad Miller
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There you go! Didn't occur to me as I haven't had to use that action yet...
 
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Martin G
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He's talking about Disperse Mob, which is an action that causes your support to drop by 1.
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Brad Miller
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qwertymartin wrote:
He's talking about Disperse Mob, which is an action that causes your support to drop by 1.


Not sure if you are talking to me, but yes, I know. Just haven't had to use it in a game, so didn't think about that. Was looking for events or something that would make it make sense. Funny that even the designers didn't think about it when answering either!

Not a very popular action I guess

laugh
 
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Martin G
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No, I was talking to somebody who deleted his post and made me look silly
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