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Subject: What constitutes a 'Forced Discard" ? rss

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Two game elements have text referring to a 'Forced Discard'.

Both of these items have featured in Dev Blogs so I don't feel there are any spoilers.

Feature: Tranquility (10): When forced to discard one or more cards, draw a card after discarding.

Magic Item: Mithril Chain Shirt (uncommon): When an Encounter or Dragonfire Card forces you to discard, you may first draw a card.

What does "Forced Discard" trigger on?

The Mithril Chain Shirt clearly lists Enounters and Dragonfire cards. I'm willing to believe that the definition of 'forced discard' is consistent across anything mentioning them, and that Tranquility only triggers off of Encounter/Dragonfire cards as well.


There are 27 features that involve discarding cards for some effect (except Tricks, which just lets you discard 'because'). I don't believe any of these constitute a 'forced' discard.

There are 2 Market cards that have discard components. They probably don't count either.

There are 8 of the 25 Dragonfire cards that involve discards. Those are clearly forced discards.

There are a 13 Encounters spread across the different decks that feature the word "discard". Some of them are clearly forced discards and would definitely trigger the above two effects.

Others encounters (mostly in one specific deck) have an option on them such as "Players can discard to ignore this effect" or "Player-type may discard to...". Are cards with "can" or "may" treated as 'forced' discards or are those choices, which would not be affected by Tranquility or the Mithril Chain Shirt?
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Noneya Bidness
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Anytime a card, encounter, location, or Dragonfire, requires you to discard. It's FORCING you to discard.
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Thanos007 wrote:
Anytime a card, encounter, location, or Dragonfire, requires you to discard. It's FORCING you to discard.


Sure, lets get to the edge cases...

Do you believe that the Feature "Tranquility" would stack with, say Feature "Weapon Bond" (which gives a choice to the player)?

Do you believe that the Feature "Tranquility" would stack with, say, Feature "Arcane Recovery" which does NOT give a choice to the player?

How about Feature "Skilled" which triggers on defeat of specific encounter types but then is presented as a required action.

Do you believe that "Tranquility" would trigger if the Obstacle said "Players can/may discard to... " and the Player chose to discard?

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Noneya Bidness
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byronczimmer wrote:
Thanos007 wrote:
Anytime a card, encounter, location, or Dragonfire, requires you to discard. It's FORCING you to discard.


Sure, lets get to the edge cases...

Do you believe that the Feature "Tranquility" would stack with, say Feature "Weapon Bond" (which gives a choice to the player)?


They would be separate cases. IF during your turn you were FORCED to discard one or more cards then Tranquility would activate. During that same turn if you CHOSE to discard any one arcane card you may draw another. They don't stack because they require different conditions to activate which are mutually exclusive to each other.

byronczimmer wrote:
Do you believe that the Feature "Tranquility" would stack with, say, Feature "Arcane Recovery" which does NOT give a choice to the player?


I'd say no as I don't think that's intended and I have a weak argument that as you have to CHOOSE to use "Arcane Recovery" so "Tranquility" doesn't activate but as written is sure is open to discussion/interpretation.

byronczimmer wrote:
How about Feature "Skilled" which triggers on defeat of specific encounter types but then is presented as a required action.


To me it seems a stronger argument can be made for this one to stack. I don't think they are supposed to but as written they would stack. "Skilled" FORCES you to discard, so yeah.

byronczimmer wrote:
Do you believe that "Tranquility" would trigger if the Obstacle said "Players can/may discard to... " and the Player chose to discard?


No as you have a choice and are NOT being FORCED
 
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Bolding *and* capping are probably unnecessary, lets keep it civil.

I don't have a rulebook handy (yet). Is the keyword 'forced' defined anywhere within the rules tome?
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Noneya Bidness
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byronczimmer wrote:
Bolding *and* capping are probably unnecessary, lets keep it civil.

I don't have a rulebook handy (yet). Is the keyword 'forced' defined anywhere within the rules tome?


Was just doing it for emphasis. No worries. Rule book was the first thing I checked. No joy.
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Seamus O'Toole
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byronczimmer wrote:
Bolding *and* capping are probably unnecessary, lets keep it civil.

Off topic but, bolding and capitalising words is regularly done for emphasis in printed (or online) text. If you emphasise an entire sentence, or entire post, then that's considered to be 'raising your voice', which folk find rude. But emphasising part of a sentence is perfectly normal and not something that people should take offence at.

I'm just saying this because emphasis seems to occasionally cause some folk to assume offence was intended when it was not, and that sort of misunderstanding can lead to unfortunate arguments.
 
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I'm trying to find synergies in the stickers, and Tranquility jumped out at me as allowing some very heavy deck cycling if it stacked with optional discard abilities or taking Feature stickers that caused draw/discard scenarios out of the player's control.

What I'm really trying to do is define which of those combinations are legal and which are not intended. This will probably end up being asked as a very detailed FAQ explaining the combinations.

As such, the real questions that remain are:
Is the clause "Player may discard to..." on an Obstacle a force? (I doubt it)

Does Tranquility work when paired with other Features that cause discards (since Tranquility doesn't specify that it only triggers on Obstacles/Dragonfire cards, but that might be inferred from Mithril Chain Shirt's description)? (I unfortunately doubt it)





 
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Noneya Bidness
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byronczimmer wrote:


As such, the real questions that remain are:
Is the clause "Player may discard to..." on an Obstacle a force? (I doubt it)


It does not as it says "may". You're not being forced.


byronczimmer wrote:


Does Tranquility work when paired with other Features that cause discards (since Tranquility doesn't specify that it only triggers on Obstacles/Dragonfire cards, but that might be inferred from Mithril Chain Shirt's description)? (I unfortunately doubt it)


I'd say that anytime your forced, by any card, Tranquility triggers.





 
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Federico Abella
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So... Would that be a yes on Tranquility + Misty Step?

Would you draw up to 3 cards, then discard that many cards, then draw one? That would make Misty Step a very powerful card.
 
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fede689 wrote:
So... Would that be a yes on Tranquility + Misty Step?

Would you draw up to 3 cards, then discard that many cards, then draw one? That would make Misty Step a very powerful card.


This is an older article.

We have been playing that 'forced' discards are those caused by Dragonfire cards and Obstacles.

Choices to discard, or those caused by play of your own cards would not count.
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