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Twilight Imperium: Fourth Edition» Forums » General

Subject: Shorter games - less victory points for win rss

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Marco Hoehener
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Having never played the game i don't know anything about the dynamics of ti3 or 4. so what follows might be a stupid question for ti-veterans. πŸ™‚

The theme and everything about the rules sounds like a lot of fun. only downside for me is the game length. Is it not possible to set the target to 7vp instead of 10 and thus shorten the game by approx. a third? or does that break the game?

Thx for feedback.
 
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Scott Lewis
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It wouldn't break the game, but would limit some of the build-up and end game push. For me, a 7vp game would probably feel more abrupt than the 10 point game.
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Raziel Chromatic
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Rimouski
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I do not recommend it. It is way better in terms of time investment to learn to appreciate a longer game than to try to shorten twilight imperium.
You would lose the climax, as there are many things happening between these 7 and 10 victory points around the board. It takes time to get everything in place in this game. By the 7th point, sometimes you feel this is where the game starts.
Also, the longer part of the game is from 0 to 7 victory points. One usually scores more points as the game goes, with a possible vp burst in a single turn by the end. This is also where the whole tension that has accumulated during the first 5 hours surfaces and explodes.
I strongly recommend to all players who are scared of a 7-hour game to just learn how to enjoy it. It is then worth every second.
Imagine, you invest 5 hours into a 7 vp game to get a truncated version of the fun. Then you play again 5 hours and still do not get the full experience. Then again. that's a lot of wasted hours in the end. Better to have fewer games with the total pleasure.

As someone mentionned in the reviews, this is not a game, this is an event.
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Sean D.
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Langley
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Yeah, in our last game, the blue objective card "game over" popped up just as the leader hit 7 points. He was not in the best position to carry on to 9 or 10 points as several stronger players were at 6 and 5 points ready to pounce on him and push past. The reason has was so far ahead was he played The Embers of Muat and he was able to crush most resistance with the early War Suns. The game felt quite anti-climatic as it was just getting interesting when it ended.
 
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Gregor Winkler
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The imperium rex card (game over) once came up as the first stage 2 objective at a con where we were playing a 8 player game to 13 vp's.
Everyone was so disappointed about this anticlimax, just as it was getting really interesting that we banned said card and now always play the game to the full end.
Sorry for off-topic
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Kay Schuemann
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truephoenyx wrote:
The imperium rex card (game over) once came up as the first stage 2 objective at a con where we were playing a 8 player game to 13 vp's.
Everyone was so disappointed about this anticlimax, just as it was getting really interesting that we banned said card and now always play the game to the full end.
Sorry for off-topic


And moments like that are probably the reason why they got rid of it.
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N F
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Greenwood
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I guess I'll be the one voice opposite the rest. We always play to 8 points. This usually still takes around 8 hours for a 6 player game.

One time we played with 6 players and the goal was 8 points. I actually achieved 8 points in only 3.5 hours. We all felt the game was too short and moved the goal to 9 points. That one additional point took me 5 hours to get.(reasons)

I think the game really shines at 5 or 6 players. Going to 8 points is almost always good enough for us and produces a nice long game. I'm sure we miss out on some end of game scrambling around at the 9 or 10 point mark, but it's not like you haven't already done a lot at 6 hours.

If you really want a shorter game, you can play with 4 players and to 7/8 points.
 
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Andy Day

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sigmazero13 wrote:
It wouldn't break the game, but would limit some of the build-up and end game push. For me, a 7vp game would probably feel more abrupt than the 10 point game.

My group tends to find 10 VP to be Anti-climactic!
 
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Marcques Domask
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In TI4 it's fairly easy - even early game - to get 3-5 points in one turn. Example:
-Control MR and score a point with 8
-Score a public objective with 8
-get a secret objective in Action phase (combat related)
-score a public and secret in Status phase

So, with only 7 points, you'll see bubble victories going from 3 points to win fairly often.
 
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Dustin Shunta
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Duskwalker wrote:
truephoenyx wrote:
The imperium rex card (game over) once came up as the first stage 2 objective at a con where we were playing a 8 player game to 13 vp's.
Everyone was so disappointed about this anticlimax, just as it was getting really interesting that we banned said card and now always play the game to the full end.
Sorry for off-topic


And moments like that are probably the reason why they got rid of it.


I always enjoyed what Bureaucracy did in these situations. With Bureaucracy it doesn't feel anticlimactic because Imperium Rex never gets played unless the person who has Bureaucracy is also the point leader. In which case, I think a bravo is in order because that player was able to grab a lead and hold on to it.

One of the disadvantages of having no Imperium Rex in the game is that there is little reason to take the point lead. It is much better to stay a point or two out of the lead so that you are not the focus of political shenanigans.

That being said, I am going to continue to play the game RAW, I think it's just a different game. I also have a strong feeling that they will issue new strategy cards in the expansion that shake things up. I wouldn't be surprised to see a set of strategy cards that include a throw-back to Bureaucracy and/or Age of Empires - both of which have a completely different feel than the current implementation.
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Andy Day

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mjdomask wrote:
In TI4 it's fairly easy - even early game - to get 3-5 points in one turn. Example:
-Control MR and score a point with 8
-Score a public objective with 8
-get a secret objective in Action phase (combat related)
-score a public and secret in Status phase

So, with only 7 points, you'll see bubble victories going from 3 points to win fairly often.

Wow, with the reduced value of secret objectives I had hopes of fewer bubbles, not more.
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Scott Lewis
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Gylthinel wrote:
mjdomask wrote:
In TI4 it's fairly easy - even early game - to get 3-5 points in one turn. Example:
-Control MR and score a point with 8
-Score a public objective with 8
-get a secret objective in Action phase (combat related)
-score a public and secret in Status phase

So, with only 7 points, you'll see bubble victories going from 3 points to win fairly often.

Wow, with the reduced value of secret objectives I had hopes of fewer bubbles, not more.

You can get more points total out of them now - 3 points instead of 2. And they are a bit easier than before, so getting a PO and SO at the same time will be more common.
 
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Marcques Domask
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Gylthinel wrote:
mjdomask wrote:
In TI4 it's fairly easy - even early game - to get 3-5 points in one turn. Example:
-Control MR and score a point with 8
-Score a public objective with 8
-get a secret objective in Action phase (combat related)
-score a public and secret in Status phase

So, with only 7 points, you'll see bubble victories going from 3 points to win fairly often.

Wow, with the reduced value of secret objectives I had hopes of fewer bubbles, not more.


It's the action phase objectives and point for MR that do it. One of which is easy to stop.

Compare to TI3 where an ideal scenario would get you 7+ points in a turn, between:
2pt secret
2pt out of turn Stage II
2pt end of turn Stage II
Artifacts
Imperial II (for those that used it)
 
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Mike Marentette
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If you do not have a lot of spare time, like many gamers, then play a shorter game. Better than not playing it at all. Same advice for Runewars (the board game, not the miniature game).
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Lance Harrop
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Teach players to plan their action on other people's turns.

Yes, sometimes you have to change what you intended when someone messes you up, but at least thinking it through has virtues.

And anyone who watches you plan a build and tries to exploit the knowledge should be whipped.

 
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Salman Qaisar
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We play all long games with a timer now, really helps speed games up.
Plan ahead or lose out.

We adapt according to the nature of the game.
Eg GOT - after timer, random orders given to units, or random card chosen in battle
Eg Warrior knights - random order card from hand played.
Similarly we'll work out an appropriate system for TI4 eg if timer runs out then random strategy card picked; or if no tactical action picked in time then must take strategic action. Etc etc.
 
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Guilherme Albuquerque
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Is there a "save" mechanism for this game, so the group can finish the game the next day or so?
 
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Scott Lewis
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You could record the game state and put the secret cards in envelopes or something.
 
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