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Star Wars: Rebellion – Rise of the Empire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Settle an argument for me rss

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Don Draper
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My roommate seems to think with the new combat system that any light sabers you roll can be used to heal damage on the attacker after the defender rolls. Thoughts? To clarify the attackers lightsabers can proactively heal damage from the defenders dice rolls
 
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David Umstattd
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Nothing in the rules suggest you can save light saber results for the end of the combat round or that you can do combat actions outside of your turn.
 
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Dustin
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No. This is the defenders advantage.
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Niall Smyth
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This is also why some of the advanced tactics cards allow you to switch the order of attacks. Plus the blocks which are on many of the cards, e.g. Nebulon B

But since the attacker will always have a leader, they can at least reroll sabers.
 
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Don Draper
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That was my thought as well
 
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Stefan
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A follow up question:

Do black sword icons only remove damage from black health units and red sword icons only remove damage from red health units?
 
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jooice ZP
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Stefaninator wrote:
A follow up question:

Do black sword icons only remove damage from black health units and red sword icons only remove damage from red health units?


yes correct
 
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Genestealer Patriarch
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I suppose its to balance an lot of other things too:

- The attacker decided to have this fight, so presumably already has an advantage (on paper) in terms of units.
- The attacker might attack from multiple systems; the defender has to make the best of what he's got.
- The attacker knew what units/tactics cards he had available when he went in, and presumably has the opportunity to get an advantage out of this; the defender has to make the best of what he's got.
- If the attacker is Rebel, he is probably doing this for something very important: an objective card, a resource planet, a rescue, something to screw up the Imperials reaching his base - and this means he will have to do or pay slightly more to achieve it.
 
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jooice ZP
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Patriarchxyz wrote:

- If the attacker is Rebel, he is probably doing this for something very important: an objective card, a resource planet, a rescue, something to screw up the Imperials reaching his base - and this means he will have to do or pay slightly more to achieve it.


I think this is the big issue, that there is a discrepancy between what the Rebels need to "pay" in the expansion compared to before.

However many of the people that have been playing have said it isn't that bad...so ill see when i get it.
 
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Justin
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Quote:
Settle an argument for me

Sure: IT CANNOT MELT STEEL BEAMS!!
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David Umstattd
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Don't you mean Durasteel beams?
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Steve Dara
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Patriarchxyz wrote:
I suppose its to balance an lot of other things too:

- The attacker decided to have this fight, so presumably already has an advantage (on paper) in terms of units.
- The attacker might attack from multiple systems; the defender has to make the best of what he's got.
- The attacker knew what units/tactics cards he had available when he went in, and presumably has the opportunity to get an advantage out of this; the defender has to make the best of what he's got.
- If the attacker is Rebel, he is probably doing this for something very important: an objective card, a resource planet, a rescue, something to screw up the Imperials reaching his base - and this means he will have to do or pay slightly more to achieve it.


I've gotta disagree with the reasoning behind this... Not that these aren't good reasons for a defender's advantage with combat rolls, but I can think of examples for the opposite of each point you made. The point of a surprise attack is that you have a strategical advantage the defender does not (not necessarily the better force). Defenders are often well established and prepared, not only 'making do with what they've got'.

I really liked the attackers benefit, as it promoted first strikes, hit and runs and little feign maneuvers (perfect for the setting of the game). But now attacking with unestablished armadas and armies is going to be very messy and costly for the initiator with an even smaller chance of reward... We'll see how the tactic cards make up the difference, but I suspect with a clear cut aggressor and defender it'll be 'hit heavy' and 'block heavy' with no large reason to send a leader...
 
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Genestealer Patriarch
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TheV0791 wrote:
Patriarchxyz wrote:
I suppose its to balance an lot of other things too:

- The attacker decided to have this fight, so presumably already has an advantage (on paper) in terms of units.
- The attacker might attack from multiple systems; the defender has to make the best of what he's got.
- The attacker knew what units/tactics cards he had available when he went in, and presumably has the opportunity to get an advantage out of this; the defender has to make the best of what he's got.
- If the attacker is Rebel, he is probably doing this for something very important: an objective card, a resource planet, a rescue, something to screw up the Imperials reaching his base - and this means he will have to do or pay slightly more to achieve it.


I've gotta disagree with the reasoning behind this... Not that these aren't good reasons for a defender's advantage with combat rolls, but I can think of examples for the opposite of each point you made. The point of a surprise attack is that you have a strategical advantage the defender does not (not necessarily the better force). Defenders are often well established and prepared, not only 'making do with what they've got'.

I really liked the attackers benefit, as it promoted first strikes, hit and runs and little feign maneuvers (perfect for the setting of the game). But now attacking with unestablished armadas and armies is going to be very messy and costly for the initiator with an even smaller chance of reward... We'll see how the tactic cards make up the difference, but I suspect with a clear cut aggressor and defender it'll be 'hit heavy' and 'block heavy' with no large reason to send a leader...

That's true, BUT if the Imperials are well dug in on a system, the Rebels will almost certainly not attack it, even in the base game - because the Imperials have to spread out and must be diluted somewhere, there are always better places to attack. (With missions) the Rebels can frequently attack almost anywhere, they will tend to pick places where they have massive attacker advantage. The new rules (I think) are trying to balance that out.

If either side is trying to attack a strong defensive position in the expanded rules, they must have an overwhelming reason to do so...like a game-winning reason. It is therefore reasonable for the game to skew things to make that bit harder, or at least not such a certainty.

The Rebels in the base game have lots of ways of scoring objectives with little that the Imperials can do once they are set up: I've won the game with the "Liberation" objective by playing Leia/C-3PO and "Incite Rebellion" on a 1-Stormtrooper planet - once that combo started there was little point playing out the battle, it was as good as won. With the new rules the outcome isn't quite such a foregone conclusion.

 
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Spence
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Patriarchxyz wrote:
I suppose its to balance an lot of other things too:

- The attacker decided to have this fight, so presumably already has an advantage (on paper) in terms of units.
- The attacker might attack from multiple systems; the defender has to make the best of what he's got.
- The attacker knew what units/tactics cards he had available when he went in, and presumably has the opportunity to get an advantage out of this; the defender has to make the best of what he's got.
- If the attacker is Rebel, he is probably doing this for something very important: an objective card, a resource planet, a rescue, something to screw up the Imperials reaching his base - and this means he will have to do or pay slightly more to achieve it.


Thank you for that great run down of why the attacker will probably have a bigger advantage than the defender even though the defender might have a SLIGHT advantage in rolling, especially in round one. Those were great points you brought out! I've heard too many people complain about the new combat system BEFORE THEY'VE EVEN PLAYED IT!! All the people (I've read/watched) that have played it say it barely alters the advantage from the old system! They shouldn't forget, if you don't like the new combat system you can STILL play with the old one! Those rules and cards don't evaporate when you buy the expansion. I just wish people would wait to play it before judgement is passed!

People shouldn't forget (as mentioned) the attacker will probably re-roll crossed sabers with their leaders to get more hits. Then the defender might be able to remove those hits, which might even mean they're nullifying each other. Also don't forget a crossed sabers is a 1 in 6 chance (not that easy to roll) whereas hits are 50/50, so much easier to get (even if re-rolling sabers). Also only red sabers can remove red damage and black sabers can remove black damage. So you might roll a certain color saber and not even be able to use it! I'm just reinforcing the point that defenders don't get a HUGE advantage, probably just a slight one from what I've read/heard from others that have played it.

In most combat situations (and a lot of games) the defender SHOULD have a slight advantage, it seems more thematic and realistic! But if you want to do a "sneak attack" that's when you reverse the combat order! Now the opponent can't remove damage as easily! Remember when you play the card that reverses the order of combat it remains that way through ALL the following combat rounds until your opponent reverses it again (if he can).

AND (again) if people don't like the new battle system, they can just play the old one. The new expansion works with the old battle system and a couple new cards even reference the old system (if using it). But from what I've read/watched everyone seems to like the new system MUCH better! I can't wait to try it! I'm hoping my package comes this weekend!!!
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