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Subject: Mobs as a single unit? rss

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Sid Rain
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I didn't see any variant threads that specifically addressed this idea, but I can't be the first person that considered this. The complaint about mobs seems to be that the minions are just glorified HP counters. So the idea is that, why not just remove all the minions and reduce the Mob units down to a single mini?

It takes a bit more calculation to figure out, mostly just some multiplication/addition and you just use Wound counters to track damage. XP is also a little wonky since you are gaining 1XP per wound UP to the number of minions there would be (then gaining 3XP when you actually kill the unit/boss). Maybe XP could be tracked using XP counters?

I haven't gone through all the cards/abilities, but is there any reason why this wouldn't work?

To me the benefits are:
• less minis to move/track each turn
• moving minis less often
• need less minis on-hand since you're not having to dig through a big pile
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Jay Crockett
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I don't see how this would work as minions have separate attacks and counter attacks. Orcs have more than one hit point so you have to keep track of them separately.

And why would you want less minis??? Next you'll be saying the game would play the same with cardboard counters. Blasphemy!
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Sid Rain
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jaycrockett wrote:
I don't see how this would work as minions have separate attacks and counter attacks.

The rulebook describes Mob Attacks as "When a Mob attacks use the Attack dice indicated on the Enemy card to resolve Combat rolls, no matter the number of minions in it." and also describes a Mob as "A Mob counts as one Enemy". My understanding of that is that it doesn't matter how many minions are in the Mob, they'll still just attack/counter-attack just the same. Mob Minions really only act as meat shields for the Boss. Am I misunderstanding that?


jaycrockett wrote:
Orcs have more than one hit point so you have to keep track of them separately.

You would just add it all together to get one units total HP. So if you've got two Heroes and encounter a Mob with 3HP & x1-Minions, you get a unit with a total health of 9HP [1 Boss(3HP) + 2 Minions (3HP each)]. It might get slightly complicated if any healing is involved with a Minion (round off the damage to the next increment), but otherwise they all just behave as one unit anyways.

jaycrockett wrote:
And why would you want less minis??? Next you'll be saying the game would play the same with cardboard counters. Blasphemy!

I'm not going there, I appreciate the quality of the mini-sculpts and I bought the game for the minis, but what's the point of having a group of minis on the board if they just behave as though they were one unit anyways? Having them boiled down to one mini each means less time finding the minis that go with the mob, less maintenance moving them around the board, less space taken up on the board, and just overall less to keep track of.

I can just keep 1 or 2 of each mini on hand and just scoop them all up when I'm done. That way I don't have to worry about sorting through everything later. I'm trying to cut down on set-up/breakdown time.
 
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Adam McCourt
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Actually I had an idea about mobs. Please understand I haven't read the rules yet or played a game (too busy painting minis lol) so take this idea with that in mind. I'm basing this on what I've seen of various internet playthroughs.

All mobs get a bonus to their attack based on the number of figures in the mob vs the total number of heroes in the target zone. Of course only 1 hero figure is actually attacked still (unless the rules state otherwise). If the mob out numbers the heros than add +1 sword to the attack/counter) if the mob out numbers the total heroes by times 2 than add +2 swords.

The idea behind this is to make mob size actually matter as well as add an extra level of tactics and make the game harder. Do you have the heroes stay together for extra defence or seperate to cover more ground etc. Theme wise I think of it as the more figures in a mob the more firepower they can use against a single target... if there are more heroes in a zone, then some of that mob firepower is dispersed between all the targets and thus is less effective and thus no extra attack bonus.


 
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Jay Crockett
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Wow you are right I totally got that wrong. That was definitely making the harder for me.

It is weird that they did it that way. I'm not aware of any area effect skills or anything would prevent you lumping the health together. The shadow barbarian has a skill that instakills minions so you'd have to word that a bit differently.
 
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Craig Hallstrom
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While there may be ways to lump the minions together, you can't lump the minions with the boss. While extra damage will spill over from one minion to the next, it does not spill over to the boss. Therefore you need to kill all the minions before you can target the boss - which requires a separate attack action.

At least that is my understanding of the rules (which I have not chosen to go look at again before posting this) and watching a number of demo videos which were moderated by CMON people.
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Florian Weixler
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I kind of play it like that.

I only put the boss on the tiles. And use the same proxies for minions which I put on the mob card. This way there is no need for extra calculations.
Makes the game faster for me, I don't visually miss the minions on the tiles.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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paddirn wrote:
I didn't see any variant threads that specifically addressed this idea, but I can't be the first person that considered this. The complaint about mobs seems to be that the minions are just glorified HP counters. So the idea is that, why not just remove all the minions and reduce the Mob units down to a single mini?

It takes a bit more calculation to figure out, mostly just some multiplication/addition and you just use Wound counters to track damage. XP is also a little wonky since you are gaining 1XP per wound UP to the number of minions there would be (then gaining 3XP when you actually kill the unit/boss). Maybe XP could be tracked using XP counters?

I haven't gone through all the cards/abilities, but is there any reason why this wouldn't work?

To me the benefits are:
• less minis to move/track each turn
• moving minis less often
• need less minis on-hand since you're not having to dig through a big pile


Your approach is reasonable, but I think the main reason people find the game fun is the toy aspect of it, and a bunch of minions help that feeling. That's why I think people gravitate towards house rules that make the minions more useful, instead of simply removing them.
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Emivaldo Sousa
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Challst wrote:
While there may be ways to lump the minions together, you can't lump the minions with the boss. While extra damage will spill over from one minion to the next, it does not spill over to the boss. Therefore you need to kill all the minions before you can target the boss - which requires a separate attack action.

At least that is my understanding of the rules (which I have not chosen to go look at again before posting this) and watching a number of demo videos which were moderated by CMON people.
You are correct. But I think you can still track this easily without the minions on the board.
 
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Fred Jandt
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Since Mobs and Bosses are essentially separate units (separate hit points, must attack each separately), I wonder if this isn't just a matter of the bosses acting differently ... waiting for their horde of minions to attack the heroes for instance.

Could be something to think of for a variant: Smart Bosses.
 
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Chris H
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Honestly what I've been doing is only putting the boss on the board and then putting counters on the cards for each minion. When a minion dies, remove a counter. I've mostly done it to reducing setup/teardown, and since I have less minis in the box I can use the extra space for the Kickstarter roaming monsters. I also hate the visual clutter of having 10+ monsters on a single space.
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Pondo Ninefingers
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ravynlocke wrote:
Since Mobs and Bosses are essentially separate units (separate hit points, must attack each separately), I wonder if this isn't just a matter of the bosses acting differently ... waiting for their horde of minions to attack the heroes for instance.

Could be something to think of for a variant: Smart Bosses.

That's kind of interesting. It'd be cool to have a boss be like a mini-agent, reviving and buffing its minions, while the minions did the mob work. Maybe some bosses could even lead from different zones. Hmm.
 
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Sid Rain
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LeastCoordinatedJedi wrote:
ravynlocke wrote:
Since Mobs and Bosses are essentially separate units (separate hit points, must attack each separately), I wonder if this isn't just a matter of the bosses acting differently ... waiting for their horde of minions to attack the heroes for instance.

Could be something to think of for a variant: Smart Bosses.

That's kind of interesting. It'd be cool to have a boss be like a mini-agent, reviving and buffing its minions, while the minions did the mob work. Maybe some bosses could even lead from different zones. Hmm.

At the very least, letting the Bosses & minions move in different spaces increases the Mobs overall Line of Sight, which could make them more dangerous if you're trying to avoid a fight, though how would you handle a scenario where the boss is killed off and he has a pack of minions moving about? Does the Mob dissipate after that without a Boss? Do they promote one of their own to be a new leader (but without a Treasure item)? Do they just stay minions without a Boss (and without the Treasure item bonus)?
 
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Pondo Ninefingers
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paddirn wrote:
LeastCoordinatedJedi wrote:
ravynlocke wrote:
Since Mobs and Bosses are essentially separate units (separate hit points, must attack each separately), I wonder if this isn't just a matter of the bosses acting differently ... waiting for their horde of minions to attack the heroes for instance.

Could be something to think of for a variant: Smart Bosses.

That's kind of interesting. It'd be cool to have a boss be like a mini-agent, reviving and buffing its minions, while the minions did the mob work. Maybe some bosses could even lead from different zones. Hmm.

At the very least, letting the Bosses & minions move in different spaces increases the Mobs overall Line of Sight, which could make them more dangerous if you're trying to avoid a fight, though how would you handle a scenario where the boss is killed off and he has a pack of minions moving about? Does the Mob dissipate after that without a Boss? Do they promote one of their own to be a new leader (but without a Treasure item)? Do they just stay minions without a Boss (and without the Treasure item bonus)?

I'd say kill the boss and they become just a roaming band of low-damage low-defense minions that can still hurt you, but are far less dangerous.
 
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