Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Colonial Twilight: The French-Algerian War, 1954-62» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Attrition rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Nathan Lee
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I have noticed in my first solo game that the French can really wear down the FLN over time (in an assault or neutralization, eliminated units go between the available box and the casualties box).

Once in the casualties box, they are out of the campaign, and then a third of them go to out of play.

Wouldn't it make sense then for the French to just go for the kills in the early game (especially since there is not a victory check on the first Propaganda Card? It would reduce the FLN's available forces quite a bit over the first campaigns, forces they can't get back easily.

What do people think?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carlos Roig
Germany
Mainz
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Playing as Government that is exactly my main objective during the first campagne. Kill, kill, kill, kill. You get out of resources very quick though. And you should take care of the France track as well, but as the first objective, for me, no doubt.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Lee
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Is there a mechanic for the FLN to use to get pieces back from the Out of Play box (other than event)?

I looked over everything last night and couldn't see anything.

If so, it seems killing off guerillas should be the priority not only early in the game, but early in every campaign.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Bednarek
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
As mentioned killing the FLN is resource intense. A good FLN player will spread out his pieces making the French "Kill" philosophy cost ineffective.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Train
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are one or two cards which allow you to bring Guerrillas out from Available or Out of Play.
But that.s all.

Reminding you that Guerrillas go to available and Casualties alternately per Assault or Neutralize, not throughout the turn.

So if you do two Assaults, each of which kills one Guerrilla, both of them go to Available. If you do one Assault that kills two Guerrillas, one goes to Available and one to Casualties.
The lesson is clear - DON'T BUNCH UP.

Brian
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Lee
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If he spreads his forces out, doesn't that leave him open to the Neutralize special activity? I could see the French player doing sweep-sweep-Neutralize-neutralize. It only costs 4 resources and could potentially wipe out 4 guerillas per action (2 to available, 2 to casualties, assuming they have grouped with 2 guerillas in a space, which I would still consider to be 'spread out'). Or, if he only has 1 guerrilla guarding a base, then the base goes and commitment goes up, a double benefit for the French player.

Do that enough and how many guerillas will still be in play by the last campaign?

That's the best reason I've seen for having those lone French police in the desert... Perhaps that was Mr. Train's intention all along....?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Train
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Neutralize takes out only 2 guerrillas total, not 2 per Neutralize space selected (unless you have the Overkill capability in play).
So sweep-sweep-neutralize-neutralize would cost 4 resources kill 2 guerrillas and 1 of them would go to casualties.
And those two spaces would then be at Oppose (or Oppose with a Terror marker).
You can try to shoot your way to victory, but it may not work.

Brian
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Lee
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah, I had misread that. I thought it was two per selected space.

So I guess that means that neutralize is only really valuable in taking out lone bases that might be unattended for whatever reason. Otherwise, it's too high a price to pay to just take out a guerilla or two, unless it would swing the balance of control right before a prop card in a high population area for example. But that is very tough to time correctly, especially since you can't look one card ahead.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Lee
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess you could always Neutralize in one space, if you had an extra Special activity, and nothing else jumps out as a priority.

Just to be clear, in the case of a Neutralize in 2 spaces that eliminates 1 guerrilla in each for a total of 2, both units go to Available, right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt Purcell
Canada
Kanata
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thegreat2 wrote:
I guess you could always Neutralize in one space, if you had an extra Special activity, and nothing else jumps out as a priority.

Just to be clear, in the case of a Neutralize in 2 spaces that eliminates 1 guerrilla in each for a total of 2, both units go to Available, right?

Not the way I read it, eliminate total of 2 Guerillas from any eligible spaces with Troops/Police, the two removed are sent to Available/Casualties. The spaces selected don't have to be from the location of the accompanying Garrison or Sweep.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Lee
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, that seems to be what it says. Usually special activities are tied to the spaces where operations happened, but this may be a unique case.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Train
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you remove 2 Guerrillas in a Neutralize, the first would go to Available, the second to Casualties.
(This is where Neutralize is subtly different from Assaults, which are judged per selected Assault space.)

If you Neutralize in just one space, you take 2 pieces from that space, so a Base guarded by only one Guerrilla is vulnerable.
Neutralize plus the Torture capability would let you take an additional piece per space, so a total of up to 4 if you Neutralized in 2 spaces, and 1 in each of those spaces could be an Underground Guerrilla.
Neutralize with the Overkill capability lets you take a total of 4 from the spaces.
The ultimate combo, Neutralize plus Overkill plus Torture, would let you remove a total of up to 6 pieces from two selected spaces.

Anyway, which spaces are selected for Neutralize are not tied to where the Sweeps and Garrisons happened.
In fact, none of the Special Activities in this game are tied to the spaces where the accompanying Operations took place, except for FLN Ambush (which is a special kind of Attack, really).

Brian
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt Purcell
Canada
Kanata
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you Brian for the diligent work supporting these forum questions. I had missed the "remove pieces" part with the consequent threat to bases.



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Train
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You're welcome Kurt.

Brian
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fred J
Netherlands
Wassenaar
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Very interresting discusssion and, as always, great support from Brian.

CT is the first COIN game where insurgent losses could have a dramatic effect in the long term.

Would it be possible to know more about the historical reasons (if any) that led to the introduction of the 'casualties' mechannism? or is it just a game balancing feature?

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Train
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

During testing I was always a bit disappointed with the ability of the insurgent to rally-rally-rally and rebuild from nothing, every time, when it fact a guerrilla force that sustained large losses over a short period of time will be somewhat suppressed and unable to respond to these losses efficiently.

Therefore, if guerrillas are killed in large numbers all at once in the same Operation or SA (meaning some of them go to Casualties), the insurgent military structure will be denied the use of those in casualties until the end of the campaign (at which time one or more of them will go to Out of Play).
I thought it fitting that the guerrilla should be at least slightly punished for violating Guerrilla Rule #1: DON'T BUNCH UP.
Meanwhile, the insurgent's infrastructure capability is not affected; Bases always go to Available.
And the Government should be allowed at least the illusion that it is possible for them to kill their way to victory (but this will only happen if the FLN obliges them with mass targets).

Historically also, by 1960 or so the FLN's military organization within Algeria was severely run down and attrited.
The French had suppressed the FLN within the country, while the FLN kept an ever-larger army waiting in Tunisia against the day of political victory - they would need it then to grab and hold on to power.
That is why the FLN starts the Short scenario with 5 Guerrillas in Out of Play: the historical Challe Plan has run its course.

Brian
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Campbell
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
That is my basic strategy as well, my opponent likes to rally like crazy then when i garrison to activate he may well attack if he is 6 guys in a spot and ready to go first next turn or just march and spread out over 3 territories.

This strategy delays the mobilization event and I am pretty much forced to take a hit in committment during propaganda phase 1 or be faced with fighting 30 insurgent warbands with starting units of 1954. You really need those french troops to tackle guerrillas in mtn or else you are faced with garrison/neutralize which will get 2 of them but the FLN goes first next turn. They can easily do ambush or straight out attack you back and wipe your force out by a third.

cheers,
j
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.