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Subject: Strategic 4 character party build rss

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Christopher Senn
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As a veteran of Shadowrun:Crossfire I STILL found this game rough. Like really rough. The 1st campaign scenario is no joke (stupid tokens)

One fun part of playing SR, was creating a party that played off each others strengths.

But right now, due to this game having much more character attributes to consider, I am having a hard time trying find these character strengths.

Anyone got any tips on what makes for a great races make the most use out of a class? And how to build a successful synergy amongst the team?
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Position 1 is clearly a Fighter.
Each of those races has a different advantage:
Human: Thin Deck, faster cycling of the good stuff
Half-Orc: Larger Starting Hand, won't discard hand when Stunned
Sun Elf: Cycles Deck after turn 2 instead of after turn 3

They're all going to be a different playstyle, and since the mix of market cards has shifted, I'm not sure what's going to be best.

Position 3 or 4 is probably the Devotion character.
This is where the healing will end up.
One of the Green Market cards has an assist that only works for Devotion characters, which limits the off-color value of that card.

Rouge probably takes on position 2 or 3. Red is the new Green, so the thief is taking on the Decker role. Strong recursion.

Mage slots in as late as possible given all this because they're squishy and one of the Dragonfire cards makes them monster bait.

Getting the marching order right will take some time. The only clear choice is a fighter leading the way.
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NZ Nick
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Sounds like your going to be forced to play a very limited range of chars in each position and level chars down a very narrow path. That's a little sad, it reduces the chance of being able to enjoy (and beat) the game with crazy or different combo's of chars.
 
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Christopher Senn
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nzbiship wrote:
Sounds like your going to be forced to play a very limited range of chars in each position and level chars down a very narrow path. That's a little sad, it reduces the chance of being able to enjoy (and beat) the game with crazy or different combo's of chars.


I hope that is not the case. Too early to tell yet.

But with ShadowRun your Races didnt vary nearly as much. You just had 4 races (with only 3 attributes) and 4 classes. With this game you have more races with much more attributes and subclasses to consider. And with shadowrun i still felt like you had some interesting flexible options. probably because the races could be any class in any game. So while EVERYONE thought an elf made the best mage I would use a dwarf to be the mage or a hacker from game to game.



 
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nzbiship wrote:
Sounds like your going to be forced to play a very limited range of chars in each position and level chars down a very narrow path. That's a little sad, it reduces the chance of being able to enjoy (and beat) the game with crazy or different combo's of chars.


The thread is asking for an optimal team, not 'crazy combos of characters'. I'm sure that exploration will come later as people level up characters and want to try a different experience.

The game recommends (requires?) that all four color roles be present. That's your classic D&D party: Fighter, Rogue, Priest, Mage. If you're playing a 4 player game, those are the roles you're going to have. Maybe a Ranger fills the Martial Role or a Druid fills the Devotion role, but the four basics are going to be present because the game requires some diversification of color to be successful.

In every RPG I've played, we always have a "Marching Order". The Tank/Fighter goes in first, the Healer and Mage are in protected positions and the Rogue does whatever it is that Rogues do to make things fall down (we don't talk about that much). That's all I recommended above. I even explored the strengths/weaknesses of the Fighters a little bit, since each is going to play very differently but all can perform the role of "Tank". There's more to come, rest assured.

I've played SR:CF, a lot. 60 Karma across two different characters in groups sized two to four. In one pair up, where my wife was playing the Samurai/Decker (Fighter/Thief) we had my character (Mage/Priest effectively) take point in some games because we wanted to try it out. It worked because we knew the game fairly intimately at that point and understood what trade offs we were making by putting me through the door first.

If you want the Mage to kick open the door, put the Mage in position one.

No-one is *forced* to do anything. Vanilla characters out of the box are very similar to each other and don't have a lot to differentiate them. Using those inherent advantages and disadvantages to your benefit seems logical, but you are not *forced* to do so.

HP $$ Hand Equipment Pack
Human Fighter 10 2 3 KKKKURG
Sun-Elf Fighter 8 2 5 KKKKUURG
Sun-Elf Mage 5 3 6 KUUUUURG
Human Mage 6 4 4 KUUUURG

K = Black (Martial)
U = Blue (Arcane)
R = Red (Deception)
G = Green (Devotion)

Given the above stats, who would you put into a position that is all but guaranteed to take damage on round 1, turn 1?

I'd opt for one of the people with spare hit points to take that first hit, but if you want the Sun-Elf Mage to go first then go ahead.

Spoilers here for those who don't want really in depth analysis. You've been warned:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Sun-Elf Mage starts with 6 cards. That gives them the possibility of a one shot on specific obstacles in the Dungeon 1 Deck:
Swarming Skeletons (if they draw Green)
Swarming Zombies (if they draw Green)
Orc War chief (if they draw Green and Red)
Gelatinous Cube (if they draw Red)
Half-Ogre (if they draw Black and Red)

If it's not one of those obstacles AND the right starting draw, the Mage is taking 1 or 2 damage right out of the gate. Ouch


In fact, after looking at some things, putting the Rogue first might be interesting:

HP $$ Hand Equipment Pack
Human Rogue 8 5 2 KURRRRG
Half-Orc Rogue 9 5 2 KKURRRRG
Half-Elf Rogue 8 4 3 KURRRRG

The Rogue has HP to rival the Fighters, but their hand sizes mean they will definitely not be one-shotting anything on round 1. Indeed I can see the Rogue holding their entire hand turn one and not playing anything. If they do that, there's no reason to put them in position #1, because then positions #1 and #2 are guaranteed to be taking damage. With large banks ($3 - $5), however, they will have a good card going into their 2nd turn and will unleash their roguish fury.

We might as well poke at the Devotion characters since we've done all the rest.

HP $$ Hand Equipment Pack
Human Cleric 8 3 4 KURGGGG
Half-Orc Cleric 8 3 4 KKURGGGG
Dwarven Cleric 9 4 4 KKURGGGG

Again enough HP to weather the first position but not a large enough hand size to be swinging hard out of the gate. However, the Cleric wants to play at least one card in their first turn in order to get under the 3 card threshhold to allow them to draw cards from their deck. These characters will push out *some* first turn damage, and it's going to be Green or Black at a minimum.

Once Feature stickers start getting applied to character screens, the abilities of each character will start to be more clearly differentiated. By then the players should also have a better understanding of how they can contribute. When that happens, I hope "where they sit in the turn order" isn't a contention point, but a decision of strategic value that the team agrees on.
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Steven LaGorce
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Character HP is a lot higher in Dragonfire. This will give a lot more flexibility on which character leads for later scenes.

It might be more HP than we need. I am considering adding a couple garden gnomes to my 6 character party assuming they are the lowest starting hp.

RE narrow paths. Each class has three or four sub-classes to choose from including the base class stickers.
 
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gorski1234 wrote:
Character HP is a lot higher in Dragonfire. This will give a lot more flexibility on which character leads for later scenes.

It might be more HP than we need. I am considering adding a couple garden gnomes to my 6 character party assuming they are the lowest starting hp.

RE narrow paths. Each class has three or four sub-classes to choose from including the base class stickers.


You do not get to redefine the order of play once you start.

Also, I've been thinking about the more HP thing. Most SR:CF games go about 6-7 rounds. I think that DF games are going to go longer. I can't quite put my finger on it yet, but it's a gut feeling based on the Market cards and Encounters.
 
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Christopher Senn
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gave it a second go tonight.

Created a group with a starting high amount of card in their hand. As it does seem the characters. Yet still they were able to have a high amount of health.

Was able to knock out the 1st round of baddies pretty easily and kept my DragonFire level considerably low this time.

Lucked out with that black card that deals 2 damage to every encounter facing 1 character. Had several of those pop up. Really helped in the 3rd round when there were like 8 tokens on one guy.

Not sure if my strategy of having a high starting hand will hold during the other missions.
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Ulrich Stegmann
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I've been toying with this and i have found that some damage mitigation is key.

My go to team now is

Forest Gnome Fighter - Incredible Damage Mitigation with ColorSpray and martial cards
Half-Elf Druid - Great damage and market expansion.
Lightfoot Halfling Rogue - Damage mitigation and decent card/gold ratio
Tiefling Warlock - Damage and i ran out of ideas. Also Hex makes Special abilities a joke.

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beltaine wrote:
I've been toying with this and i have found that some damage mitigation is key.

My go to team now is

Forest Gnome Fighter - Incredible Damage Mitigation with ColorSpray and martial cards
Half-Elf Druid - Great damage and market expansion.
Lightfoot Halfling Rogue - Damage mitigation and decent card/gold ratio
Tiefling Warlock - Damage and i ran out of ideas. Also Hex makes Special abilities a joke.


So those are from the expansion pack of characters I presume? I have yet to see the stats and racial abilities of this crew.

No humans. Interesting. I'm kind of interested in trying a full crew of Humans to see how that goes since their only "advantage" out of the gate would be accelerated deck churning.
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Christopher Senn
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byronczimmer wrote:
beltaine wrote:
I've been toying with this and i have found that some damage mitigation is key.

My go to team now is

Forest Gnome Fighter - Incredible Damage Mitigation with ColorSpray and martial cards
Half-Elf Druid - Great damage and market expansion.
Lightfoot Halfling Rogue - Damage mitigation and decent card/gold ratio
Tiefling Warlock - Damage and i ran out of ideas. Also Hex makes Special abilities a joke.


So those are from the expansion pack of characters I presume? I have yet to see the stats and racial abilities of this crew.

No humans. Interesting. I'm kind of interested in trying a full crew of Humans to see how that goes since their only "advantage" out of the gate would be accelerated deck churning.


I too, didnt choose to have any humans. Their stats arent that impressive. I went with characters with large starting hands and high health (every member had HP that ranged from 7-9, thus eliminating the need for a tank or an evasive halfling)

(in marching order)
Sun Elf Warrior
Moon Elf Bard
Shield Dwarf Cleric
Golden Dwarf Wizard

I was able to dominate the 1st scenario this way.
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Steven LaGorce
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byronczimmer wrote:
gorski1234 wrote:
Character HP is a lot higher in Dragonfire. This will give a lot more flexibility on which character leads for later scenes.

It might be more HP than we need. I am considering adding a couple garden gnomes to my 6 character party assuming they are the lowest starting hp.

RE narrow paths. Each class has three or four sub-classes to choose from including the base class stickers.


You do not get to redefine the order of play once you start.

Also, I've been thinking about the more HP thing. Most SR:CF games go about 6-7 rounds. I think that DF games are going to go longer. I can't quite put my finger on it yet, but it's a gut feeling based on the Market cards and Encounters.


I thought that the first player to act in scene two is the player to the left of the player that killed the last encounter in scene 1.

I agree with your hunch about longer games. Imagine a half-orc champion with the 100xp sticker that lets you heal 1 hp every turn. Barring a DF card that does damage to him on reveal, his games will last many rounds even after most of his party has died.
 
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gorski1234 wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
gorski1234 wrote:
Character HP is a lot higher in Dragonfire. This will give a lot more flexibility on which character leads for later scenes.

It might be more HP than we need. I am considering adding a couple garden gnomes to my 6 character party assuming they are the lowest starting hp.

RE narrow paths. Each class has three or four sub-classes to choose from including the base class stickers.


You do not get to redefine the order of play once you start.

Also, I've been thinking about the more HP thing. Most SR:CF games go about 6-7 rounds. I think that DF games are going to go longer. I can't quite put my finger on it yet, but it's a gut feeling based on the Market cards and Encounters.


I thought that the first player to act in scene two is the player to the left of the player that killed the last encounter in scene 1.

Only in the startup rules.

In the normal rules, it should be possible to have a few characters acting with no DragonFire card in effect during the start of Scenes 2 and 3.

Quote:
I agree with your hunch about longer games. Imagine a half-orc champion with the 100xp sticker that lets you heal 1 hp every turn. Barring a DF card that does damage to him on reveal, his games will last many rounds even after most of his party has died.


Does the game not end if *any* character goes to red?



 
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Michael Kindt Dalzen
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gorski1234 wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
gorski1234 wrote:
Character HP is a lot higher in Dragonfire. This will give a lot more flexibility on which character leads for later scenes.

It might be more HP than we need. I am considering adding a couple garden gnomes to my 6 character party assuming they are the lowest starting hp.

RE narrow paths. Each class has three or four sub-classes to choose from including the base class stickers.


You do not get to redefine the order of play once you start.

Also, I've been thinking about the more HP thing. Most SR:CF games go about 6-7 rounds. I think that DF games are going to go longer. I can't quite put my finger on it yet, but it's a gut feeling based on the Market cards and Encounters.


I thought that the first player to act in scene two is the player to the left of the player that killed the last encounter in scene 1.



You are correct. Player order is unchanging during an Adventure. A new scene begins with the player to the left of the one that finished the last scene.

New Rounds always begin with the original first player. The Dragonfire deck is always managed inbetween Rounds, regardless of when the new Scene began. So your Scene and Round will not always begin at the same time.
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^ ^ that explains things much better.

Scene will change, but the Dragonfire will be buried, giving a few possible turns of peace and quiet.
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