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Subject: Russia's Involvement in our Election rss

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Andre
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http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-facebook-ads-election...

Interesting article, detailing that Russian trolls were using Facebook, to push ads on the election. If this is not a concern to you, it should be. Because they will do it again. Step 1, trolls. Step 2, get hold of election lists, and tamper with them. Step 3, find a way to directly change a vote. Without diligence on our part, this could very well be the scenario, because it is unlilkely the Russians will be calling it quits, after 2016.
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Mac Mcleod
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More than that. Thousands of paid ads according to maddow last night. Face book denied it for months but finally admitted it yesterday.
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Probably a similar article: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41182519
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Vincent Perry
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I'll worry about it when the US stops interfering in other country's elections.
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theodorelogan wrote:
I'll worry about it when the US stops interfering in other country's elections.

Huh? That doesn't make much sense. I agree the US shouldn't interfere in other nations' elections, but I don't think that has any effect on what the Russians do.
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sbszine wrote:
theodorelogan wrote:
I'll worry about it when the US stops interfering in other country's elections.

Huh? That doesn't make much sense. I agree the US shouldn't interfere in other nations' elections, but I don't think that has any effect on what the Russians do.


I makes a lot of sense when you don't realize that I don't care if Russia "interferes" (which apparently means as little as someone who might be in Russia writing critical articles) in US elections.
 
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Kevin Salch
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abadolato01 wrote:
http://www.businessinsider.com/russian-facebook-ads-election...

Interesting article, detailing that Russian trolls were using Facebook, to push ads on the election. If this is not a concern to you, it should be. Because they will do it again. Step 1, trolls. Step 2, get hold of election lists, and tamper with them. Step 3, find a way to directly change a vote. Without diligence on our part, this could very well be the scenario, because it is unlilkely the Russians will be calling it quits, after 2016.


slip sliding away...


Just to be clear, I don't like it. I don't see this as a huge threat to democracy. People should be educated voters.
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J.D. Hall
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theodorelogan wrote:
sbszine wrote:
theodorelogan wrote:
I'll worry about it when the US stops interfering in other country's elections.

Huh? That doesn't make much sense. I agree the US shouldn't interfere in other nations' elections, but I don't think that has any effect on what the Russians do.


I makes a lot of sense when you don't realize that I don't care if Russia "interferes" (which apparently means as little as someone who might be in Russia writing critical articles) in US elections.

So it's okay if the Russian government takes active and deliberate steps to undermine the democratic electoral process in the US and in Europe, but if the US does it, it's the worst thing that ever happened in history.

Right.

Dude, the Sixties are over. You can put down Mao's Little Red Book and Ten Days That Shook the World. Doesn't apply anymore.
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Andre
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theodorelogan wrote:
I'll worry about it when the US stops interfering in other country's elections.


The laissz-faire approach rarely works, in the world of intelligence. Under which election tampering would fall.
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There is no good way to fix this, espionage is espionage and as long as the Internet is vulnerable to fake news, all nations will attempt to manipulate each other for their own purposes. Our own politicians put up lie filled ads by the thousands, it's not like campaigns are exercises in integrity. Hacking a voting machine is one thing and should not be tolerated, pulling the hate-strings of the fakenews drone army is another.

What we should be doing is not so much getting mad at the Russians, that's like getting mad at a snake because it bites you, but making it clear to the people who bought the lies that they are being manipulated by people who have their own interests at heart and their interests are largely benefited by us not fulfilling ours. People should be ashamed that they believed the Russian ads more than anything. I think we lose some of the "lesson" if we turn that shame into anger at the Russians.
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Andre
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TheChin! wrote:
There is no good way to fix this, espionage is espionage and as long as the Internet is vulnerable to fake news, all nations will attempt to manipulate each other for their own purposes. Our own politicians put up lie filled ads by the thousands, it's not like campaigns are exercises in integrity. Hacking a voting machine is one thing and should not be tolerated, pulling the hate-strings of the fakenews drone army is another.

What we should be doing is not so much getting mad at the Russians, that's like getting mad at a snake because it bites you, but making it clear to the people who bought the lies that they are being manipulated by people who have their own interests at heart and their interests are largely benefited by us not fulfilling ours. People should be ashamed that they believed the Russian ads more than anything. I think we lose some of the "lesson" if we turn that shame into anger at the Russians.


The people that bought the lies are not the brightest bulbs in the room, that is why they bought the lies. To tell them they are being manipulated is like speaking into the wind. Kind of like trying to shake some sense into a Trump base voter, laughs, it's not going to happen.
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Pete Goch
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It's not particularly shocking to find that the Russians (or any foreign power) attempted to influence the outcome of an election here.

The fact that, by all appearances, the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to do so should be.

//edit//

I also don't particularly care about the Russian propaganda campaign on the internet. People believed that stuff not because they found it persuasive but because they wanted to believe it.

It's the DNC hack and leaks that are the real concern.
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abadolato01 wrote:
The people that bought the lies are not the brightest bulbs in the room, that is why they bought the lies. To tell them they are being manipulated is like speaking into the wind. Kind of like trying to shake some sense into a Trump base voter, laughs, it's not going to happen.
Unfortunately, this is because coming from the Left it will fall on deaf ears. Smart people on the Right and Right leadership should be doing the finger pointing and the shaming, outside of partisan politics this is bad for everyone. Getting the edge in elections because you are preferred by corrupt Russian oligarchs shouldn't be something any sane person should tolerate. It makes you look like the corrupt American oligarchs many suspect you of being.
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TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
It's not particularly shocking to find that the Russians (or any foreign power) attempted to influence the outcome of an election here.

The fact that, by all appearances, the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians to do so should be.


Agreed, but I am not shocked by the fact that they attempted to interfere, merely impressed with the level to which they did. I think we do have to be concerned if it gets to the level where actual votes can be altered or people are turned away from voting, due to the Russian operations. Turning away a voter, to some degree, is almost as bad as altering a vote, in my opinion.
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Andre
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TheChin! wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
The people that bought the lies are not the brightest bulbs in the room, that is why they bought the lies. To tell them they are being manipulated is like speaking into the wind. Kind of like trying to shake some sense into a Trump base voter, laughs, it's not going to happen.
Unfortunately, this is because coming from the Left it will fall on deaf ears. Smart people on the Right and Right leadership should be doing the finger pointing and the shaming, outside of partisan politics this is bad for everyone. Getting the edge in elections because you are preferred by corrupt Russian oligarchs shouldn't be something any sane person should tolerate. It makes you look like the corrupt American oligarchs many suspect you of being.


I wholeheartedly agree with you that smart people on the Right and Right Leadership should be doing the finger pointing and shaming, so how come they are not? True, investigations are proceeding, but to a very large degree, most Right members of the legislative branch have largely been silent, on the implications of this Russian intervention, and even more silent on the fact that Trump may be complicit in it.
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abadolato01 wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with you that smart people on the Right and Right Leadership should be doing the finger pointing and shaming, so how come they are not? True, investigations are proceeding, but to a very large degree, most Right members of the legislative branch have largely been silent, on the implications of this Russian intervention, and even more silent on the fact that Trump may be complicit in it.
Definitely a conscience crisis going on for many I expect. Especially hard for some when they see how that one guy in Arizona is being treated for being on the wrong side of an issue from Trump.
 
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Andre
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TheChin! wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with you that smart people on the Right and Right Leadership should be doing the finger pointing and shaming, so how come they are not? True, investigations are proceeding, but to a very large degree, most Right members of the legislative branch have largely been silent, on the implications of this Russian intervention, and even more silent on the fact that Trump may be complicit in it.
Definitely a conscience crisis going on for many I expect. Especially hard for some when they see how that one guy in Arizona is being treated for being on the wrong side of an issue from Trump.


But isn't a Congressmans duty to represent their constituency, as opposed to Trump? What you mentioned is part and parcel of the problem. People are silent when they see an issue they object to, or are concerned about, when they should be vocal, regardless of what side of the fence they'll be seen on.
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remorseless1 wrote:
theodorelogan wrote:
sbszine wrote:
theodorelogan wrote:
I'll worry about it when the US stops interfering in other country's elections.

Huh? That doesn't make much sense. I agree the US shouldn't interfere in other nations' elections, but I don't think that has any effect on what the Russians do.


I makes a lot of sense when you don't realize that I don't care if Russia "interferes" (which apparently means as little as someone who might be in Russia writing critical articles) in US elections.

So it's okay if the Russian government takes active and deliberate steps to undermine the democratic electoral process in the US and in Europe, but if the US does it, it's the worst thing that ever happened in history.

Right.

Dude, the Sixties are over. You can put down Mao's Little Red Book and Ten Days That Shook the World. Doesn't apply anymore.


LOL where did you get the idea that I believe US interference in elections is in even one of the top 1000 worst things in the world?

I mean, if we are talking about election interference, it makes sense to bring up the US government, which does it more than any other government in the world. The feds also claim to act in my name, so I resent it more when they do things that piss people off. I definitely enjoy the irony of people so upset that another country would dare do it to the feds. But I'm much more concerned with the people the US government kills than the democratic processes it interferes with. I'm also more concerned with the McCarthy-esque atmosphere where everyone who doesn't believe the claims of anonymous sources with no evidence is a stooge of Putin. That is how we got into war with Iraq...people who said that the government was lying or who pointed out the lack of evidence were shouted down as Saddam sympathizers
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abadolato01 wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
There is no good way to fix this, espionage is espionage and as long as the Internet is vulnerable to fake news, all nations will attempt to manipulate each other for their own purposes. Our own politicians put up lie filled ads by the thousands, it's not like campaigns are exercises in integrity. Hacking a voting machine is one thing and should not be tolerated, pulling the hate-strings of the fakenews drone army is another.

What we should be doing is not so much getting mad at the Russians, that's like getting mad at a snake because it bites you, but making it clear to the people who bought the lies that they are being manipulated by people who have their own interests at heart and their interests are largely benefited by us not fulfilling ours. People should be ashamed that they believed the Russian ads more than anything. I think we lose some of the "lesson" if we turn that shame into anger at the Russians.


The people that bought the lies are not the brightest bulbs in the room, that is why they bought the lies. To tell them they are being manipulated is like speaking into the wind. Kind of like trying to shake some sense into a Trump base voter, laughs, it's not going to happen.


So a clear line between smart and dumb. That makes it so tidy.
 
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theodorelogan wrote:
sbszine wrote:
theodorelogan wrote:
I'll worry about it when the US stops interfering in other country's elections.

Huh? That doesn't make much sense. I agree the US shouldn't interfere in other nations' elections, but I don't think that has any effect on what the Russians do.


I makes a lot of sense when you don't realize that I don't care if Russia "interferes" (which apparently means as little as someone who might be in Russia writing critical articles) in US elections.


So... just as a reality checkpoint, have you always been okay with the russians or just since trump became the candidate?

Because conservatives used to oppose russians. They frequently angrily called liberals russian and communist sympathizers for over four decades of my life.

I find the sudden degree and number of commie/russian sympathizers among "conservatives" to be appalling and unpatriotic- and probably self destructive.
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GameCrossing wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
There is no good way to fix this, espionage is espionage and as long as the Internet is vulnerable to fake news, all nations will attempt to manipulate each other for their own purposes. Our own politicians put up lie filled ads by the thousands, it's not like campaigns are exercises in integrity. Hacking a voting machine is one thing and should not be tolerated, pulling the hate-strings of the fakenews drone army is another.

What we should be doing is not so much getting mad at the Russians, that's like getting mad at a snake because it bites you, but making it clear to the people who bought the lies that they are being manipulated by people who have their own interests at heart and their interests are largely benefited by us not fulfilling ours. People should be ashamed that they believed the Russian ads more than anything. I think we lose some of the "lesson" if we turn that shame into anger at the Russians.


The people that bought the lies are not the brightest bulbs in the room, that is why they bought the lies. To tell them they are being manipulated is like speaking into the wind. Kind of like trying to shake some sense into a Trump base voter, laughs, it's not going to happen.


So a clear line between smart and dumb. That makes it so tidy.


I think it's more a clear line between the 25% of the population who are authoritarian and pro-authoritarian and the rest of the population. They yearn for a strong leader and easily adapt to whatever views are required to conform to that strong leader.

I agree with what I think your point is that there are smart and dumb among liberals, conservatives, and every other political party and that painting them as "dumb" is unrealistic and prevents discussing the real reasons for their positions.

The authoritarians tend to line up to the right in the U.S. but not elsewhere. What I call 'softheads' (emotional, irrational "thinkers") tend to line up on the left in the U.S.

Other than particular "isms" (like racism), even "dumb" people know when their ox is being gored by a particular party. And also, there's a large portion of the population that switches back and forth for unknown reasons (other than stuff like "change"... "can't remember the other party was as bad any more"... "a new generation of voters who dislikes the current setup", etc).
 
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"Just to be clear, I don't like it. I don't see this as a huge threat to democracy. People should be educated voters. ".

Ah but then they would be intellectuals and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Intellectualism is unamerican!

 
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theodorelogan wrote:
I'll worry about it when the US stops interfering in other country's elections.


When the U.S. is at war with another nation, or fighting terrorists, do you also not give a shit about our soldier's lives since we are killing enemy combatants?
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growlley wrote:
"Just to be clear, I don't like it. I don't see this as a huge threat to democracy. People should be educated voters. ".

Ah but then they would be intellectuals and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Intellectualism is unamerican!



As the unaccredited quoted source.

I have never posted anything that supports this position.
Classic case of "moving the goalposts.

It's one of the few plusses of low voter turnout and voter apathy is that those who do vote tend to be more educated on the issues.

To be clear, I do see low voter participation as an issue.

This kind of comment is actually systematic of the intellectual superiority that is common in politics.
 
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