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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Psylocke, Mystique and Hero Deck rss

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joe n
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Hello everybody

Mystique: Turn the Tide
Reveal the top card of the Ally Deck. You may play a copy of that card this turn. When you do, put that card on the bottom of the Ally Deck.

Psylocke: Precognition
Reveal the top card of the Hero Deck. You may recruit it this turn. If you do, draw a card.

These are very interesting cards. But how would you handle them together?

Situation 1
1. play Turn the Tide
2. play Precognition
3. activate Turn the Tide -> playing a copy of revealed card, putting it on bottom

Now you can no longer activate Precognition.

Situation 2
1. play Turn the Tide
2. play Precognition
3. activate Precognition, buy the top card of Hero deck, draw a card

Can you play a copy with Mystique? If you can, should you put this back on the bottom of the Hero deck?

Situation 3
1. play Turn the Tide
2. play Precognition
3. buy a card from HQ, card referenced by the two played cards is now in HQ

Can you play a copy and put it on the bottom of the hero deck from HQ?
If you buy it from HQ, do you draw a card?

And there are other similar situations, but you get the idea! Any thoughts how this should be done?

Thanks!

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Todd Warnken
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You activate a card when you play it not later.
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Rachael
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Mundane wrote:
You activate a card when you play it not later.

Usually. But with these two cards, if the wording given here is correct (don't remember exactly and don't feel like going to look), you activate part when you play (reveal the card) then activate the rest whenever you want. So you could do any of the scenarios given in the original post.

From the scenarios, I think it is interesting to note that for the third one...

gf1024hu wrote:
1. play Turn the Tide
2. play Precognition
3. buy a card from HQ, card referenced by the two played cards is now in HQ

Can you play a copy and put it on the bottom of the hero deck from HQ?
If you buy it from HQ, do you draw a card?

... you don't even need Precog for the questions to start. With just Turn the Tide, if you play it, then recruit from the HQ before activating the second part of it, do you move the card you revealed to the HQ? Can you copy from the HQ? Can you move to the bottom of the deck from the HQ? I'm inclined to say yes to the first and no to everything else, which gives answers to other questions as well. My reasoning goes back to cards not having memories. Once the card has moved to someplace else, it isn't the card you were messing with before.

On the other hand, I could easily be convinced that the relevant general rule is do as much as you can of everything and this isn't about cards having memories since the card hasn't "changed" in the way that bystanders acting as villains in the city become bystanders again once in your victory pile and don't remember being villains. If we go with that, then you'd do everything on both cards and the only question I'd have is if you still move the card to the bottom of the hero deck after copying it from someplace other than directly revealed from the deck. If you recruited something else and it goes to the HQ then you copy, does it go back to the deck? What if you use Precog to recruit it then copy it? Does it go back to the bottom of the hero deck from your discard pile, thus wasting your recruit (though you would have got a draw out of it)? I'm honestly not sure. Seems possible, but that last in particular seems like it would suck. Bad planning on player's part, I guess.
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Fernando Santos
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For me it would happen like this:

1)Play Turn the Tide

It reveals the top card of the hero deck (exemple, it´s a wolverine card, and why? because he's the best at what he does).

If you play a copy of THAT card this turn that card is going to the bottom of the ally/hero deck.

2)Play Precognition

You reveal the top card of the hero deck, surprise, it´s wolvie!

You buy that card.(because you felt like it).

Then you decide that you WILL indeed use the copy of the card revealed by Turn the Tide.

And presto, that card, now on your discard pile, goes to the bottom of the hero deck.

Because in this case indeed it is referred wich card goes to the bottom of the hero deck, it's not the card in the top of the hero deck, it's THAT card that turn the tide revealed.


Now this is a fun question!
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Brian Baier
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gf1024hu wrote:
Mystique: Turn the Tide
Reveal the top card of the Ally Deck. You may play a copy of that card this turn. When you do, put that card on the bottom of the Ally Deck.

The key interpretation here lies with the phrase "When you do." Does it mean "When you Reveal," or "When you play a copy?" A better wording would probably have been, "If you do," which follows the context of a choice the player "may" have made. Or, one could argue, the use of "When" implies an inevitability, meaning you have no choice and the the last part of the text instructs you place the card on the bottom of the deck to "When" you reveal it.

I think refers to the optional copying effect, but this highlights how important rules wording can be.

gf1024hu wrote:
Psylocke: Precognition
Reveal the top card of the Hero Deck. You may recruit it this turn. If you do, draw a card.

See? They got it right when they wrote this one up.

In each case, I would say the top card either goes or stays based on the immediate resolution of the optional effect of the card played.
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Theorel Masheriel
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Personally, the way I would handle this is:
If you do something to change the top card of the Hero Deck, then you can no longer interact with it using previously played copies of these cards (of course you can now play one of them to get at the new top-card). It's clean, simple, and avoids any argument about what "could" happen.

How has this not come up before? Turn the Tide is an uncommon...you can have 3 of them.
What happens if you play all 3? Can you abuse that to get 3 copies of whatever the top card of the Ally deck happens to be? Or once it goes to the bottom of the Ally Deck, can you no longer play a copy of it?


As to the question in this thread, to be completely evil:
No Deck, several cards in discard. You play both cards.
You recruit using Psylocke's ability, and draw a card...shuffling discard into draw stack. You then play a copy of the card, do you get to go through your deck to get it back out and move it to the bottom of the hero deck?

This is why Dominion has a 'lose track' rule. And this is why I would handle it as at the top of the post. If you move it from the top of the deck, you can no longer play a copy of it/recruit it.

elucidarian wrote:

In each case, I would say the top card either goes or stays based on the immediate resolution of the optional effect of the card played.

The issue is that the optional effect isn't immediate.
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