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Subject: Combining journeyman with the base game rss

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daman whodaman
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Like the subject heading says... what can you legally/rules combine from journeyman to the base game other then the characters/heroes
Thanks!

 
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Josh Derksen
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The Journeyman rulebooks have a couple of things that I would consider fixes to the stuff in the core game:

1) Agents. If you have these guys, the rules are more fleshed out in the JM rulebook.

2) Serendipity. JM provides an expanded table with some new effects that cover some edge cases. Recommended you include these.

3) Movement Lock token. I've found this helpful for teaching the game to new players; use these rules and proxy the token if you don't own JM.
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daman whodaman
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What of items etc... anything else can I use with base game as I play to journey level..
 
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Paul Kelly
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The only thing you can't sensibly add in are the Journeyman cards. The items are needed to be added to the rest especially if you are using one of the new heroes as there are items which help them in there (as well as help others of course when using the dual wield rules).

You would no doubt struggle against the captains or bosses from the JM sets if not journeymen heroes but see no reason to not add in the minions occasionally as a hunting pack when added with no lair and using the quests might be a bit odd as mostly themed to the monsters in the box they came from.

Two things to almost definitely ignore (forever) are the lost and sailing rules unless you like starting afresh just because of a few of bad dice rolls. They are an interesting idea poorly executed but at least as with pretty much most things in Myth you can ignore them if you don't like them, which seems to be the consenus of 99%+ of the players that mention it.
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Marcus Taylor
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Khali wrote:

Two things to almost definitely ignore (forever) are the lost and sailing rules unless you like starting afresh just because of a few of bad dice rolls. They are an interesting idea poorly executed but at least as with pretty much most things in Myth you can ignore them if you don't like them, which seems to be the consenus of 99%+ of the players that mention it.


This comes from their bizarre refusal to playtest anything.
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daman whodaman
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Khali wrote:
The only thing you can't sensibly add in are the Journeyman cards. The items are needed to be added to the rest especially if you are using one of the new heroes as there are items which help them in there (as well as help others of course when using the dual wield rules).

You would no doubt struggle against the captains or bosses from the JM sets if not journeymen heroes but see no reason to not add in the minions occasionally as a hunting pack when added with no lair and using the quests might be a bit odd as mostly themed to the monsters in the box they came from.

Two things to almost definitely ignore (forever) are the lost and sailing rules unless you like starting afresh just because of a few of bad dice rolls. They are an interesting idea poorly executed but at least as with pretty much most things in Myth you can ignore them if you don't like them, which seems to be the consenus of 99%+ of the players that mention it.


Thank you as want really planning to use the quests or laird but just the new heroes and the items...are theybusuable as inquest with base game....
 
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daman whodaman
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
Khali wrote:

Two things to almost definitely ignore (forever) are the lost and sailing rules unless you like starting afresh just because of a few of bad dice rolls. They are an interesting idea poorly executed but at least as with pretty much most things in Myth you can ignore them if you don't like them, which seems to be the consenus of 99%+ of the players that mention it.


This comes from their bizarre refusal to playtest anything.


Seriously great game if they did their work...meh! Aside from that like I asked above is can in use the heroes and items with merchants only while I quest from base game... will that break anything or no
 
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Benjamin Tieman
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Mix and match as you see fit. Nothing is "fixed" necessarily in this game, so consequently, nothing really "breaks" this game. Just go into it with an open mind, flexibility, and willingness to compromise with the rules. Main objective: have fun. Don't stress about getting every rule right, or doing everything "correctly", because you really won't be able to. The community here is awesome and will help with questions, but in the end there isn't a final executor of rules, other than yourself.
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daman whodaman
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benjamininja wrote:
Mix and match as you see fit. Nothing is "fixed" necessarily in this game, so consequently, nothing really "breaks" this game. Just go into it with an open mind, flexibility, and willingness to compromise with the rules. Main objective: have fun. Don't stress about getting every rule right, or doing everything "correctly", because you really won't be able to. The community here is awesome and will help with questions, but in the end there isn't a final executor of rules, other than yourself.

Thank you and well said one of the drawbacks of this game it's vagueness in certain areas
 
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Josh Derksen
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drakkonblade wrote:
benjamininja wrote:
Mix and match as you see fit. Nothing is "fixed" necessarily in this game, so consequently, nothing really "breaks" this game. Just go into it with an open mind, flexibility, and willingness to compromise with the rules. Main objective: have fun. Don't stress about getting every rule right, or doing everything "correctly", because you really won't be able to. The community here is awesome and will help with questions, but in the end there isn't a final executor of rules, other than yourself.

Thank you and well said one of the drawbacks of this game it's vagueness in certain areas


While some of the rules vagueness frustrates me about Myth, I would argue that it is also one of its strengths in some areas. It's mostly about figuring out where those parts of the game lie for you.
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David Griffin
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I agree. In adventure mode, it's the only game where the player has full control of the threat level. He can have it as hard or as easy as he wants and change it on the fly. And the actual combat (to me anyway) is very fun. You have to be willing to fill in those rules details by command decision because looking stuff up is tough.
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Riccardo Menozzi
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Is the JM rulebook available online?
 
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David Griffin
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Vrass wrote:
Is the JM rulebook available online?


Yes http://megacongames.com/downloads/ but there are two and they cover most of the same material with minor exceptions (kanis vs. Blackwall) and both omit stuff and that is kind of the reason why I want to tear my hair out when I need to look something up.

You're playing 4 heroes, 2 are "light" 2 are "dark" you have a question, where do you go to look it up? Kanis? Blackwall? The two accompanying short booklets? One of the two scenario books? The v2 manual? The V1 manual? The reference cards? Just shoot me in the head.
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Rob Davis
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Khali wrote:
Two things to almost definitely ignore (forever) are the lost and sailing rules unless you like starting afresh just because of a few of bad dice rolls. They are an interesting idea poorly executed but at least as with pretty much most things in Myth you can ignore them if you don't like them, which seems to be the consenus of 99%+ of the players that mention it.


I can agree with you on the Sailing rules, but anyone who gets party wiped by the Disoriented Lost rules is the dumbest person alive.
 
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David Griffin
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davro33 wrote:
Khali wrote:
Two things to almost definitely ignore (forever) are the lost and sailing rules unless you like starting afresh just because of a few of bad dice rolls. They are an interesting idea poorly executed but at least as with pretty much most things in Myth you can ignore them if you don't like them, which seems to be the consenus of 99%+ of the players that mention it.


I can agree with you on the Sailing rules, but anyone who gets party wiped by the Disoriented Lost rules is the dumbest person alive.


I don't have the disoriented rules in front of me but isn't still just a matter of a few bad die rolls? Or is there a tactic I didn't see? Note we didn't go to Blackwall.
 
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Rob Davis
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The only way that a party can ever wipe due to the Disoriented + Lost rules is by choice.
Quote:
If the party receives the Lost token 3 times in an adventure, the heroes are defeated. The heroes are lost in the confusing tunnels of the warrens
and are never seen again. The heroes must reset their progress and start again with new heroes.


So it all boils down to 1 simple choice - if you've already been Lost twice, don't choose a tile with the Disoriented icon on it.

They screwed up Sailing by making you roll multiple times on the stupid table, which means that it is possible (however unlikely) that you could die on your very first attempt.

The biggest issue I've always had w/the Lost rules is that there is a boatload of risk (pardon the pun) and zero reward. It would be great if while lost in Blackwall's catacombs if you had a chance to discover a tomb filled with treasure, or come across some pirate treasure while you're sailing. But no, all you get are a bunch of penalties that make the systems totally unenjoyable.
 
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Jason S
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davro33 wrote:
The only way that a party can ever wipe due to the Disoriented + Lost rules is by choice.
Quote:
If the party receives the Lost token 3 times in an adventure, the heroes are defeated. The heroes are lost in the confusing tunnels of the warrens
and are never seen again. The heroes must reset their progress and start again with new heroes.


So it all boils down to 1 simple choice - if you've already been Lost twice, don't choose a tile with the Disoriented icon on it.

They screwed up Sailing by making you roll multiple times on the stupid table, which means that it is possible (however unlikely) that you could die on your very first attempt.

The biggest issue I've always had w/the Lost rules is that there is a boatload of risk (pardon the pun) and zero reward. It would be great if while lost in Blackwall's catacombs if you had a chance to discover a tomb filled with treasure, or come across some pirate treasure while you're sailing. But no, all you get are a bunch of penalties that make the systems totally unenjoyable.


So, its basically like the events for travelling to settlements in Warhammer Quest, but without any of the awesomely good stuff?
 
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David Griffin
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davro33 wrote:
The only way that a party can ever wipe due to the Disoriented + Lost rules is by choice.
Quote:
If the party receives the Lost token 3 times in an adventure, the heroes are defeated. The heroes are lost in the confusing tunnels of the warrens
and are never seen again. The heroes must reset their progress and start again with new heroes.


So it all boils down to 1 simple choice - if you've already been Lost twice, don't choose a tile with the Disoriented icon on it.

They screwed up Sailing by making you roll multiple times on the stupid table, which means that it is possible (however unlikely) that you could die on your very first attempt.

The biggest issue I've always had w/the Lost rules is that there is a boatload of risk (pardon the pun) and zero reward. It would be great if while lost in Blackwall's catacombs if you had a chance to discover a tomb filled with treasure, or come across some pirate treasure while you're sailing. But no, all you get are a bunch of penalties that make the systems totally unenjoyable.


We read through the sailing rules and said ... ummm... we just get there OK, let's put out the first tile after we land.
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Rob Davis
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Preacher379 wrote:
davro33 wrote:
The only way that a party can ever wipe due to the Disoriented + Lost rules is by choice.
Quote:
If the party receives the Lost token 3 times in an adventure, the heroes are defeated. The heroes are lost in the confusing tunnels of the warrens
and are never seen again. The heroes must reset their progress and start again with new heroes.


So it all boils down to 1 simple choice - if you've already been Lost twice, don't choose a tile with the Disoriented icon on it.

They screwed up Sailing by making you roll multiple times on the stupid table, which means that it is possible (however unlikely) that you could die on your very first attempt.

The biggest issue I've always had w/the Lost rules is that there is a boatload of risk (pardon the pun) and zero reward. It would be great if while lost in Blackwall's catacombs if you had a chance to discover a tomb filled with treasure, or come across some pirate treasure while you're sailing. But no, all you get are a bunch of penalties that make the systems totally unenjoyable.


So, its basically like the events for travelling to settlements in Warhammer Quest, but without any of the awesomely good stuff?

Unsure since I've never played Warhammer Quest, but it's really just a flavor mechanism that they decided to add penalties to.

You know... I'm re-reading the Sailing table for the umpteenth time and just realized that it's not nearly as deadly as I had thought. I kept missing 2 important points:

1) I missed that you still get to play a tile after rolling a 2-4. I had thought that any of the results that gave you the Lost token were an automatic re-roll on the table, but only 1 and 5 make you roll again. The rest give you a tile to fight on, which means you'll lose the Lost token right away.

1) You die after rolling 5 times on the table with the Lost token, but you don't gain the Lost token until after your first roll. So you have to roll horribly 6 times in a row, not 5. That may seem like a small difference, but when calculating odds it has a pretty big impact.

So if my math is correct, when you're sailing from a tile w/Sailing modifier = 1, you'd have to roll either a 1,2, or 6, six times in a row to die. There's only a 0.07% chance of that.

Even a sailing modifier of 3 only increases the odds to a 1.6% chance.
 
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David Griffin
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It still amounts to dying on your way to the adventure. Try that in an RPG as the DM and see how the players react. No thanks.
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Rob Davis
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Unless it's written into a module, the only time you should be using the Lost rules is during Adventure mode. So you're not on your way to the adventure, it is a part of the adventure.
 
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David Griffin
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davro33 wrote:
Unless it's written into a module, the only time you should be using the Lost rules is during Adventure mode. So you're not on your way to the adventure, it is a part of the adventure.


Sorry I don't buy it. I also don't like dying in the mine entrance of Shadows of Brimstone.
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Michael Olsen
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To me this sort of death, RPG or board, is completely unacceptable.
No game should have this sort of "insta-death" based on poor dice rolls. I do not care if the chance is 1.6% or 0.0016%, as long as the chance is there the mechanics needs to change.

Death is ok. In fact, without danger there is no game for me. But dying due to poor dice rolls with no way to modify them... that is not ok.

For what it is worth, in RPG tropes this is called "Rocks fall, everyone dies" and is used to describe what a DM may say when he is fed up with the campaign. I sure do not want my Myth game to be this angry with me.
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Marcus Taylor
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Michael_Olsen wrote:
To me this sort of death, RPG or board, in completely unacceptable.
No game should have this sort of "insta-death" based on poor dice rolls. I do not care if the chance is 1.6% or 0.0016%, as long as the chance is there the mechanics needs to change.
Death is ok. In fact, without danger there is no game for me. But dying due to poor dice rolls with no way to modify them... that is not ok.
For what it is worth, in RPG tropes this is called "Rocks fall, everyone dies" and is used to describe what a DM may say when he is fed up with the campaign.


While Myth is in no way an RPG or dungeon crawler, the dreadful 'sailing' rules are caused by the same old problem...

... they absolutely refuse to playtest any of their rules. If this was playtested by just one group, they'd have flagged up that dying due to an arbitrary dice roll in a very grindy game that requires you to play 50+ hours with the same characters just to keep a full suite of equipment...

... wasn't a very good idea.

Michael_Olsen wrote:
I sure do not want my Myth game to be this angry with me.


Myth is full of bizarre little rules that only seem to exist to make the game less fun to play. Most of the aren't as egregious as the 'sailing/lost' rules in Kanis and Blackwall, but it's weird that they're still there.

They're easily house-ruled away, but it's always weird that actual effort went into making the game less enjoyable to play.
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Michael Olsen
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
Michael_Olsen wrote:
To me this sort of death, RPG or board, in completely unacceptable.
No game should have this sort of "insta-death" based on poor dice rolls. I do not care if the chance is 1.6% or 0.0016%, as long as the chance is there the mechanics needs to change.
Death is ok. In fact, without danger there is no game for me. But dying due to poor dice rolls with no way to modify them... that is not ok.
For what it is worth, in RPG tropes this is called "Rocks fall, everyone dies" and is used to describe what a DM may say when he is fed up with the campaign. I sure do not want my Myth game to be this angry
with me.


While Myth is in no way an RPG or dungeon crawler, the dreadful 'sailing' rules are caused by the same old problem...

... they absolutely refuse to playtest any of their rules. If this was playtested by just one group, they'd have flagged up that dying due to an arbitrary dice roll in a very grindy game that requires you to play 50+ hours with the same characters just to keep a full suite of equipment...

... wasn't a very good idea.


Oh, I did not say it is a RPG (or a Dungeon Crawler). I said any boardgame, and it is that.

And yes, any test group would have flagged it, I am sure. Unless the playtester was, you know, a dog...


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